Experience from Inside Mars Hill

Another couple links on this last day of Link Junction January:

http://twocleareyes.blogspot.com/2012/01/mars-hill-altar-of-doctrine-and-occult.html#!/2012/01/mars-hill-altar-of-doctrine-and-occult.html

http://marshillrefuge.blogspot.com/2012/01/questions.html#comment-form

I added the above, Mars Hill Refuge, to my blog list.

(No guarantee that I will stop my linking frenzy just because we are running out of January.)

Steamrolled by Driscoll Back in 2007

Bent Meyer was. He was a part of Driscoll's church, saw some things that concerned him, and was fired, excommunicated, and spoken badly about by Driscoll.

He has shown up over at The Wartburg Watch and has added his voice to the voices of concern that are sounding the alarm over there.

But I don't want you to take my word for it. I want you to hear it better from WTH, my friend who is trying to stay as objective a possible while he also raises concerns over Driscoll.

http://wenatcheethehatchet.blogspot.com/2012/01/bent-meyer-posts-on-wartburg-watch.html

(Hits are still coming concerning Grace, her blog, her affair, her lie, etc. I find it to be very interesting.)

Edited to add some other good news:

http://freedom4captives.wordpress.com/2012/01/20/48-a-bit-troubling/

Abuse at Mars Hill

As the hits keep coming here looking for Grace Driscoll's blog, Mars Hill is dealing with a lot of accusations of abuse.

I know the doctrine is abusive on more levels than I can talk about.

Here's a few links concerning it.

http://thewartburgwatch.com/2012/01/26/run-baby-run-personal-insights-on-mars-hill-and-mark-driscoll/

http://thewartburgwatch.com/2012/01/27/mars-hill-and-mark-driscoll-under-scrutiny-while-another-painful-story-emerges/

And here is some good insight from my friend Shirley:

http://bwebaptistwomenforequality.wordpress.com/2012/01/27/look-whos-doing-the-exploitation/

Link Junction January is almost over, but we'll see how many more links I can get in before the month is up.

Womanhood Confusion and 12 Step Recovery

Just call me the blog link junction this month.

All I seem able to do is link other people's blog posts. And I'm okay with that. I hope you are too, and I hope any new visitors will be as delighted over some of the things I'm finding in the blogsphere.

The two I have today aren't as related as the title of this post makes them look. I'm not linking a 12 step recovery for Womanhood Confusion, I just have two unrelated posts that, for women, might have a bit of a connection, but I leave that for the individual to decide.

Certain sectors of American Evangelicalism seem to be over wrought and wringing their hands concerning "Gender Confusion". As a result, Herculean measures are being taken to heal our generation of this horrid monster of Gender Confusion. Unfortunately, these Herculean measures are only confusing the issue far worse than what it was to begin with because, apparently, American Evangelicals are the most confused on what Womanhood is of any other group on the face of the planet.

Karen, over at "That Mom" discusses some of the mixed and confusing messages coming out of the American Evangelical Gender Confusion Hand Wringing Fest:
http://www.thatmom.com/2012/01/25/purity-balls-christian-princess-syndrome-and-mom-haircuts-evangelicalisms-mixed-messages-for-women/

On a different note, Cindy, over at Under Much Grace, is very concerned about the damage that is being done to all people by many of the excesses going on in American Evangelicalism of which Womanhood Confusion is only one. Cindy is all about healing and being truly set free in Jesus Christ. It is good that Cindy put up:

Finding Healing Through the Twelve Steps: Recovery from the Emotional Wounds of Childhood (and from Spiritual Abuse)

http://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2012/01/finding-healing-through-twelve-steps.html

Neither of these ladies are in my blog role yet. Both ladies belong there. Better yet, I'm toying with the idea of making a links page here. I really don't mind being a link junction. I believe in the Wisdom of as Iron sharpens Iron so one man sharpens another (Proverbs 27:17 NAS).

Beaten Down Men at Driscoll's Church

I do focus a lot on how bad Drisconian doctrine is for women. It is oppressive and destructive.

But I'm becoming increasingly aware of how bad his misguided doctrine is for men too, on many, many levels. WTH has made me aware of a few things. And now the blog post at this link shows me another side of the devastation that goes on at Mars Hill.

http://matthewpaulturner.net/jesus-needs-new-pr/mark-driscolls-church-discipline-contract-looking-for-true-repentance-at-mars-hill-church-sign-on-the-dotted-line/

http://matthewpaulturner.net/jesus-needs-new-pr/mark-driscolls-gospel-shame-the-truth-about-discipline-excommunication-and-cult-like-control-at-mars-hill/

And here's freebie link. I won't charge you extra for this one at all, even though it's pretty good.

http://www.wadeburleson.org/2012/01/fatal-flaw-within-together-for-gospel.html

Is It Grace Driscoll's Blog or Affair?

Dear everyone using Google and other search engines to find either Grace Driscoll's blog or juicy gossip on Grace Driscoll's supposed affair...

I apologize that your search has brought you here, because, you see, you will not find anything you are looking for here.

If you are looking for Grace Driscoll's blog, you will be highly disappointed in my blog because my blog is written by a Christian woman who has been there and done that in the Christian community. And what I mean is, I have danced to the tune that men have played for women calling that tune, "The Gospel" when really it has little to do with The True Gospel according to Jesus Christ. I didn't dance to it very long. I found it exhausting and it produced nothing but bondage and heartache.

There is a gender gospel, a false gospel, being pushed by Driscoll, Piper, Dever, Mahaney, Mohler, CBMW and other such groups. It is being pushed hard and strong by modern day pharisees that love the best seats in homes and churches and who want to rule and control and to be able to say that God has given them the divine right to rule over women.

I am no longer subject to the false gospel of hierarchy and shame that these men pushed. But Grace Driscoll is. And if you are also subject to this false teaching, you will absolutely hate what I have to say because I consider it important to expose the gender gospel for what it is. Fake and the commandments of men.

If you are looking for juicy tidbits on Grace's affair, I got nothing. I don't know anything about it, nor do I want to know anything about it if such a thing were even true. That's between her and Mark. Personally, I wouldn't put up with the crap that Mark dishes out. But an affair is never the answer. It just distracts from the real issues in their relationship.

So, anyway, again, so sorry to those of you looking for words of wisdom from Grace's blog or gossip concerning her. You won't find it here. And if you stick around, you will just be frustrated with me.

I wish you well in your search and hope you find what you are looking for.

Mara Reid,

Owner of "From Bitter Waters to Sweet"

A Few British Responses to Driscoll

http://sarahfegredo.blogspot.com/2012/01/martin-luther-king-and-mark-driscoll.html

http://richardlittledale.wordpress.com/2012/01/12/dear-pastor-mark/

http://thechurchsofa.co.uk/2012/01/dear-markdriscoll/

No, I haven't forgotten how to write my own posts. I've just been busy. Plus, watching more and more people tear up Driscoll gives me hope that his stronghold of manly men idolatry may yet tumble down.

Oh, and this one isn't a British response, but it still needs to be mentioned:

http://pastorjonathanmartin.com/uncategorized/why-mark-driscoll-is-wrong-about-women-in-church-leadership/

Feminization?

I'm not the only one who sees the trouble with the feminization accusation thrown around by some preachers. He's a couple other gals that don't care for it to much either:

http://moonchild11.wordpress.com/2012/01/17/effeminate-christianity/

http://sarahfegredo.blogspot.com/2012/01/feminisation-of-church.html

Driscoll, a Step Up?

Well, yeah. to some people. I've been negligent to link my friend Lewis's post on Christian halfway houses for people who come from more legalistic and restrictive Christian movements than Driscoll. Lewis makes some excellent points and I appreciate the fact that he is going after Patriarchy and Quiverfull, yet has a moment to spare to take a jab at Driscoll, Piper, Mahaney, Dever, and SGM.

http://thecommandmentsofmen.blogspot.com/2012/01/halfway-houses.html

Retha on Purity Balls

Excellent post by my South African friend and 30 year old virgin, Retha on the deep error and dangers of Purity Balls.

http://biblicalpersonhood.wordpress.com/2012/01/21/whats-wrong-with-purity-balls-one-virgins-perspective/

Links to a Couple More Posts on Driscoll

There is a lot being said and a lot of great insight concerning Driscoll and his position..

http://benirwin.wordpress.com/2012/01/18/shock-jock-pasto-meets-the-full-but-not-so-manly-might-of-the-british-empire/#comment-540

http://www.reclaimingthemission.com/the-mark-driscoll-fiasco-what-the-latest-flap-teaches-us-about-the-neo-reformed-movement/

There are also sad stories with the way Driscoll treats other Christians that he disagrees with. If you would like to protest Driscoll, one way is to support a mission work in Haiti that he dumped like a hot potato, because, horror upon horrors, it was a husband and wife team where the wife held equal authority with her husband:

http://thewartburgwatch.com/2012/01/20/mark-driscoll-acts-29-haiti-relief-denied-because-of-a-woman-preacher/

Song of Solomon as Actual Poetry of the Divine

The forcing of the Song of Solomon into our modern age of tech manuals, instruction books, text books, and trouble shooting guides by shock jock preachers (like Driscoll) has ripped the beauty and poetic far and away from this poem.

Both Gem/Charis and WTH have recommended this link and I'm going to post it here for two reasons. One, for anyone visiting to look over. And two, for me to be able to find again easily without having to cut and paste.

http://www.firstthings.com/onthesquare/2012/01/the-poetry-of-sex

Dear Grace Driscoll...

My friend Charis used to blog but has moved on. But she said if she were still blogging she would write a letter to Grace Driscoll, wife of Mark Drisoll, because... Well, I think I'll let Charis (who comments here as Gem) speak for herself.

Dear Grace,

I hope and pray for you that you will be able to see things more and more clearly. Perhaps, someday, you will write for us an honest memoir of your journey of recovery of your feminine authority?

Let me introduce myself: I am Charis, the faithful wife of one husband since 1982 and the mother of a quiver full of 8 living children between the ages of 9-27 and from what I have been reading, I’ve been in your shoes:

• My husband was a Christian leader- seminary graduate, missionary, Christian college professor. His harshness got him in trouble too! In fact, he is not in full time Christian work anymore.
• Any and all marriage problems were MY fault (it’s a lie but due to my own CSA history and all its attendant shame, a lie which I easily swallowed)
• My husband exercised control and condemnation over my hairstyle. He thought coloring hair was “deceptive”, but I could not bear being mistaken for “grandma” of my newborn, with the 16 year old taken for his mother.
• My husband bullied others, put them down, called them names. One choice put down is to be associated with anything feminine. For example, he has referred to our 9 year old son a “wuz” because he isn’t very athletic….
• ….only, like your husband with the whole Ted Haggard thing, he denies it because he didn’t “call him a wuz”. He said he was “ACTING like a wuz”. Very like Mark’s “literalistic” denial.
• The denial of his damaging words and the re-writing of history became so common in my life as I stopped polishing his ego at every turn and started standing up for myself and the children that I coined a name for it: “the revised self sanctified version”.

Young children, and wives who have been sexually abused in childhood are very easy to control. I see myself in the diminutive, little, “weak willed, easily controlled” woman of 2 Tim 3, arrested in childhood in many respects and ruled by my husband in a very unhealthy way. And, sadly, his behavior and attitude matched some of the other items in the 2 Tim 3 listing.

Times will be changing around the Driscoll household as your children enter their teenage years! Teenagers are not so easy to control. My firstborn, Hannah, went away to a conservative Christian college down south. I remember when she came back for her first Christmas break at age 18 with so many opinions, so outspoken, I thought they had turned her into a “feminist”. Even as I corrected her for “disrespecting her father”, for “questioning authority”, something deep inside me admired that she had such freedom and assertiveness.

Nowadays, Hannah is a married 27 year old who graduates in May with her MD and is in the process of choosing a residency. And I am am a changed woman! I rejoice for her and for all my children that they do not follow in my “submissive” footsteps!

Which brings me to your interpretation of Esther as a “submissive wife”. Please re-think this, Grace. Can you see how Esther was actually a defiant wife? She defied the king’s laws on multiple counts: appearing before him when it was against the law and punishable by death. This act also defied his newest law that “every man should be ruler over his own household” Esther 1:22. Rachel Held Evans has an insightful post and comments on Esther and Vashti: The Real Story and Katherine Bushnell’s 100 year old analysis also addresses it well: The Vashti-Esther Story by Katharine C. Bushnell.

Lastly, I want to question the approach to Song of Solomon your husband takes? My husband, who is recovering from his longtime porn and sexual addiction, has expressed that preaching that holds up Solomon as a role model for marriage is a stumbling block for him. Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines (1 Kings 11:3). Solomon lived in real life what porn addicts live between their ears, was demonstrably incapable of loving a woman well, and is no role model!

My take on Song of Solomon is that there are three characters. Solomon- aware of his own failings in love- made himself the villain of his play, who attempts to seduce the woman away from her shepherd lover. The only use of Shulamite is in 6:13 followed by an uptick in chapter 7 of Solomon’s seductive effort. Though he wanted her for his harem (6:8-9), I believe the pursued woman in the story chose not to yield to the seduction of Solomon and become a “Shulamite” (“Solomon-ite”). Instead, she resisted the seduction and remained faithful to her beloved shepherd. May we do likewise!

You could be a very powerful force for good Grace Driscoll. I have tears in my eyes imagining strongholds falling for many if you are able to recover your spiritual authority as equal co-heir (Gen 1:26-28) and help(ezer) your husband…

Love,

Charis

Voices of Experience

My long time Internet friend, Kristen commented under my last post.

She said:

"Wow. This brings back so many memories. This is just the way the church leaders acted, in the group I once belonged to.

Sometimes it's hard, when sitting under the preaching of an overwhelming arrogance like this, to see what "stardom Christianity" is really all about. You're dazzled-- because that's what you're meant to be. It's all about a man on a platform, showing off to look good. Sometimes it takes getting burned by it to see it for what it is.

I suspect that's where the young people in this guy's church are right now. Dazzled. But they'll learn. It's sad, but they will."

And I responded:

"Yeah, and it is really hard for those of us to watch what these young people are going through.

You wish that they would listen to you, that they would realize that we aren't speaking against this because we are jealous of Driscoll's popularity or coolness or great communication or teaching ability (puke icon here).

We've see this before. We've been through this kind of train wreck and everything that leads up to it. There is nothing but a horrible end in store for this situation. And we can't stop it.

And neither will we be able to say, "I told you so," on the other side because the spiritual carnage will be so overwhelming.

So we try to do what we can now to get as many as possible to jump off. And so many of them just laugh at us as they barrel on to their doom..."

Perhaps this explains my obsession with this. I can see what is coming and I can't look away just like people couldn't look away from the images from 911 of the towers being struck and collapsing. We see disaster coming. It gets more and more obvious as time moves on. And those who can't see it, those who are still on the train protecting the derelict engineer, they have to work harder to protect the reputation of the engineer and to pretend that all is well and that they are not ignoring the "Bridge out" signs along the way.

It's horrible. And I won't be able to say, "I told you so." All that I will be able to do is to look through the wreckage and search for survivors.

Driscoll Insults a Country

Open mouth insert foot.

Some people get it when they do it, are sorry for it, apologize, learn from their mistakes, and move on.

Others are ignorant of their foot-in-mouth disease.

Driscoll is ignorant.

Here are only some of the things he said:
http://cognitivediscopants.wordpress.com/2012/01/15/driscoll-brierley-on-women-in-leadership/

And instead of the apology that he owes to British Christians, here is his sorry attempt at damage control:
http://pastormark.tv/2012/01/12/a-blog-for-the-brits

Someone please deliver us from this man and his ego.

Driscoll's Best Critic

When I find someone else who is better at saying and/or analyzing something than I am, I don't get jealous.

When I saw that Lewis Wells was better and more qualified at speaking out against Patriarchy and the Quiverful movement, all I wanted to do was to direct traffic to his blog so that people could read his words for themselves. His blog is in my blog role and I visit it frequently.

More recently, Wanatchee the Hatchet has come to my attention. He is a far better critic of Driscoll than I could ever be. He has written several post on Driscoll and they just keep getting better. Here is his latest concerning the way Driscoll has sucked the beauty right out of one of the best poems, a poem of poems, in the Bible, the Song of Solomon:

http://wenatcheethehatchet.blogspot.com/2012/01/matthew-lee-anderson-on-real-marriage.html

Poetry has the ability to cause us to transcend our, sometimes, harsh existence.

The opening scene of Anne of Green Gables shows Anne Shirley being entranced by the beauty of a poem. The first time I saw this scene, I though of Anne, "What a fruit cake." But since then, I have been entranced by the beauty of the Song of Solomon not unlike the way Anne was by her poem. This is why it was so difficult to watch a famous, shock jock preacher drag that poem down into the mud and make it base. Here is the scene of Anne reading her poem then being forced to deal with her hard life. You don't need to watch the whole scene to get the effect. It's really only the opening moments that display what I'm talking about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpLi7duxob0

Talk of Hephzibah House

My friend, Joe at Incongruous Circumspection is coming to the defense of the abused again.

I just love it when he does that.

http://incongruouscircumspection.blogspot.com/2012/01/tim-dunkins-hephzibah-house-faux-pas.html

I like seeing strong men in action. He and men like Lewis Wells boost my faith in men.

http://thecommandmentsofmen.blogspot.com/2012/01/when-sycophants-spit-against-wind.html

These are true brothers to their sisters. They are not like this Tim Dunkin who defends the strong by further abusing the already down-trodden.

Infecting Ephesians 5

Women in Ministry is in my blog roll. It has been for a long time. Cheryl, the blog owner, has been busy a lot, so her blog rests dormant for periods of time. But she still posts from time to time. Whatever Cheryl writes is good. But I particularly like today's blog post, "Ephesians Five Infected with the Mindset of the World."

So, if it has been a while since you've been to Cheryl's blog, or if you have never been over there, today is a good day to go see what she has to offer.

http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2012/01/08/eph-5-infected/

(I have CBMW and Driscoll in my tags because Cheryl touches on them.)

Edited to add another blog post from Wade Burleson. He's not in my blog roll yet, but he should be: http://www.wadeburleson.org/2012/01/new-testament-equality-leads-to-healthy.html)

Driscoll on Marriage

Yes, I knew this book was coming. No, I was never planning on addressing it here. Why? There is not enough time in my day or patience in my heart for dealing with this kind of insanity.

But I did run across a few blog posts concerning it that I wanted to pass along so that people can be aware of the hubbub.

http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/top-of-my-dont-read-list/comment-page-1#comment-621012

http://rachelheldevans.com/mark-driscoll-real-marriage

These I found out about today. And I'm sure there will be many more. I may add them to this post or put them in a new one.

But one of my favorite blog posts on Driscoll's book is and will always be WTH's post.

http://wenatcheethehatchet.blogspot.com/2012/01/review-of-real-marriage-truth-about-sex.html

And as always, WTH's analysis of the big picture concerning Driscoll is always accurate, right on, and entertaining.

I especially like this quote from the following link:

Driscoll fanboys don't realize that Mark basically deserves this kind of backlash. If you're blind and groping forward and people see this they don't hold it against you if you know you're blind. If you claim to see and they can see that you don't see clearly then you stop being an object of sympathy and start being annoying.

http://wenatcheethehatchet.blogspot.com/2012/01/mark-driscoll-and-his-fanboys.html

Driscoll used to really get my goat. Now he just annoys the heck out of me. Why? Because he's a loud-mouthed know-it-all who doesn't know one tenth of what he thinks he knows. Why should his book on marriage be any different?

And yet so many find him so hip, with it, and entertaining. They get what they deserve.

Keep after it WTH. Keep cutting through all the noise and focusing in on what is really wrong (and in some cases, right) with this crazy little thing called modern evangelicalism Mark Dristcoll style. May the church out grow this insanity soon. I'm tired of guys like Driscoll turning hearts away from the purity of the gospel.