Driscoll, MacArthur, and the Jezebel Spirit

 So, back in the day, when my mind was being blown away by the fact that Mark Driscoll was Raping and Pornifying The Song of Solomon (hither to referred to as The Songs), I was looking for someone, anyone with any kind of platform to confront these crimes against Scripture.

And I did find a guy. I linked to him and his series and thanked him on this blog for confronting Driscoll. He was John MacArthur.

However, little did I  know how much MacArthur is NOT a friend to women. I knew he was Complementarian. And really, I thought that would make others take his rebuke of Driscoll more seriously.

But John MacArthur Shamed and Excommunicated a Mother for Refusing to Take Back Her Child Abuser Husband. AND shortly after this came to light A Prominent Elder Resigned from MacArthur's Church claiming that the church was failing to protect women from abusive husbands.

Even though I was disheartened by the knowledge of how awful MacArthur is to women, I left up my posts about him confronting Driscoll. My reasoning was this: I was on a journey. I learned awful things about the Evangelical movement and Neo Calvinists. And my blog is as good a record of that journey as anything else. I am imperfect, am not omniscient. and I'm bound to make mistakes. And I did in that area out of ignorance.

So, anyway, fast forward to the last few weeks. As I watched the crazy words and behaviors of Mark Driscoll and John Lindell and what a lot of people were saying about it, I was reminded of my frustration with praising MacArthur for protecting women from Driscoll when people need to protect women from MacArthur just as much.

I read one guy's tweet that said something along the lines of, "If we need Driscoll to call out sin in our conferences, we have fallen so very low."

Now, note. I don't know that Driscoll was in the right to call out the sword swallowing act. I do know that him associating it with anything Jezebel was way out of line. And I do know that he is in no way qualified to make such judgement calls.

Please see Wenatchee's Mark Driscoll is in a strange position to opine against church leaders and cultures influenced by the Jezebel spirit when he mentioned clear heels 17 times in 13 sermons preached between January 2004 and February 2008. 

Near the bottom of this blog post Wenatchee quotes from a CBMW post (a firmly complementarian site) concerning Driscoll's Real Marriage book:

"Another problem with the way the Driscolls treat pornography has to do with the reality that many people will be guided to pornography because of their book.  Make no mistake: men and women will be introduced to pornography because of this book.  For almost my entire ministry I have been talking to at least one person a week who struggles with pornography.  I do not live in some sheltered ministry context away from people with perverse struggles.  As true as that is the Driscolls taught me a lot about pornography I wish I never knew."

With this blog post, I feel Wenatchee firmly proves that Driscoll is not qualified to define or call out sexual sin.

A Pornified Brain Assaulting The Songs, Again.

 I finished Biblical Porn the other day. It's been out since 2018 but I felt no need to read it because ol' pornified brain Driscoll has been reduced to a lying little disgraced 'pastor'* in a suburb of Phoenix.

(*pastor? really? ah, no, not really. pastors care for the flock. driscoll just uses people and throws them away when they are no longer useful to him.)

But things have changed because Driscoll is at it again, assaulting a beautiful Book of Poetry in the Bible, manipulating and twisting it beyond breaking point. Then taking the twisted and broken version of that Book and using it to create a porn and rape culture in his present church. Because of this I felt the need to read the above linked book that Wenatchee the Hatchet considers to be the best book dealing with the train wreak of Driscoll at Mars Hill in Seattle.

Driscoll first unleashed his his porn heavy interpretation of the Song of Songs back in 2007 or 2008 in the form of his "Peasant Princess" series. He also gave a sermon in Scotland called "Sex, a study of the good bits from the Song of Solomon" that he has since tried to scrub because it was so wrong, un-Christian and repulsive. Listen at your own risk.

Well, a month ago, he has recycled his porn song into a book he calls "Real Romance". Unfortunately, Driscoll believes that his perception of the world, life, sex, and marriage is the only "Real" perception. All other perceptions that don't line up, lockstep, with his are, I don't know, fake? lacking? Not Driscoll centric?

Well, I waited for a while for people to do reviews on the book since I certainly don't want to read it. I'm still getting over watching the first part of just one of his Peasant Princess videos. Now, every time I read that portion of the Songs, I remember that unfortunate and video series and how it has so muddied the waters for so many people.

I know many of the people harmed by Driscoll in Seattle have no desire to review "Real Romance" and I totally get it. If I regret watching one part of one Peasant Princess video, I can only imagine what people who were immersed in his Peasant Princess/Real Marriage crap feel about ever looking at it.

Well, anyway, because of all the above, I decided to link a guest series written by Wenatchee the Hatchet concerning his view on how Driscoll mishandled The Songs back in 2011. I'm doing this as a public service for anyone who has been assaulted by Driscoll's porn meditations through his newest book and would like to see a thoughtful response from someone who had been a member of his church back in Seattle.

Introducing Wenatchee the Hatchet (WTH)

WTH on Driscoll's SoS Intro and Part 1

WTH on Driscoll's SoS Parts 2 and 3

WTH on Driscoll's SoS Part 4a

WTH on Driscoll's SoS Part 4b

Hopefully, someday, Driscoll will stop troubling the Church with his warped ideas on men, women, and sex. But I'm not holding my breath.

Good Old Links

 These are old links from 2012 and 2014 from a blog called Practical Theology for Women.

I greatly respect the author, a confirmed Complementarian for many reasons.

I pay attention to her words concerning Mark Driscoll and Mars Hill because she used to be a member of that church and has good insight on the situation.

In the first link from 2012, she and her husband reviewed Mark Driscoll's book "Real Marriage" and did an amazing job.

Review of Real Marriage by Mark and Grace Driscoll

The second link is from 2014 and talks about some of the damage that Mark Driscoll's teaching on sex has done to people.

The Harmful Teaching of Wives as Their Husband's Porn Stars

I'm bringing these two links forward so they can be referred to when combatting, comparing, and contrasting the new sex teaching book that Driscoll is now promoting.

A Little More Fallout from Mars Hill

I guess Driscoll and Co. is getting sued for Racketeering. Crazy stuff going on.

And in looking back at the Mars Hill Madness and Peasant Princess Pandemic I'm going to link another post concerning the fallout from that lecherous loser's legacy.

This was actually written a year and a half ago but I missed it due to personal busyness. Again it is about Driscoll's sex-saturated teachings on The Songs and the damage it did to a couple and their marriage.

Mark Driscoll and Christian Rape Culture

Also, as a side note, due to the the few hits I've gotten on the Songs I'm going to link a few old posts I wrote back in the day that counteract a bit of Driscoll's devastating doctine.

*****

It's Not about You
(In which we talk about how The Songs is not just about the husband's raging needs for sex and the wife's obligation to make sure he gets unlimited amounts of it.)

First and Last Overview, SoS
(In which we talk about the progressive nature of the healing of the Beloved from the beginning of the book to the end. I imply here, but do not state outright, that the Songs are chronological in nature. This is something Driscoll denies out of hand without supporting. He has to deny it. Some of the Best Bits that he over-sexualizes and make all about his favorite sex acts... some of the Best Bits occur before the marriage chapter. But the poem is very progressive as you will see in these first and last verses we discuss here.)

Another "Suggestive" Premarital SoS Verse
(In which we talk about why the Beloved is referring to her her own breasts and needs and how Driscoll has taken that verse away from her and made it all about the husband and his needs.)

And finally:
Manipulating Scripture for Personal Benefit
(In which we talk about another verse that Driscoll takes away from the Beloved and gives to the Lover in order to put the husband's needs front and center. In the process, he ends up burying the wife's needs in the back yard so men don't have to think about that messy little detail.)

Edit, added as an after thought:
The Bedroom Police
(In which we talk about how Mark and Co. attack and accuse people who disagree claiming they are being prudes, sexually constipated, and overly restrictive in the bedroom. This accusation is a distraction and  ploy to get people's eyes off the true, self-appointed bedroom police, Mark Driscoll and all those accusing people of sin for not having enough 'god-ordained' sex.)

Another Edit, links added 3/6/16
Introducing Wanatchee the Hatchet
This is an intro to a series of guest posts by Wanatchee the Hatchet (WTH). In these guest posts WTH deconstructs Driscoll claim that the Songs can never, under any circumstances, ever be viewed as allegorical. WTH is uniquely qualified to answer Driscoll's claims as he was once a member of Driscoll's church and a respected part of the ministry.
The series has four parts that examine various aspects of Driscoll's assumptions and explains how and why Driscoll is wrong in his claim against any and all allegorical view of The Songs.
Here is a link to the series in total:
WTH on Driscoll's SOS

There is more written here, taking another view of The Songs other than Driscoll's over-saturated-with-sex version. You can get to many of them from the links above. But if there is a need, I can make a page that contains more links.

A Little Fallout from Mars Hill

During the hey days of Mars Hill, before the fall, before the accusations of plagiarism, before and during the whirlwind promotion of his Real Marriage book, I knew that his teachings were having negative impacts on women.

You could not honestly analyze his teachings and come away thinking, "This is healthy for women, men, and marriages,"

But I couldn't find women claiming or admitting that the teachings were hurting them.

Now, years later, we see them coming forward. Here is one:

Regular attender, Female

In her comments about the negative aspects of Mars Hill, this is what she said:

"The Song of Solomon and Real Marriage series nearly ruined our marriage. During SoS we were told that because we weren't having enough sex (according to the guidelines presented by Mark) and our sex life wasn't passionate and exciting enough (according to guidelines), we were in sin and not upholding biblical teachings on giving of our bodies to each other."

She said much more if you'd like to read it. Just follow the link above.

And as a bonus, here is another Female Attender, this one from Orange County who said:

"The teaching being black and white with no gray area left our marriage with what felt like no grace.  When I disagreed with Driscoll's interpretation of scripture my husband would say things like 'are you even a Christian?  You just don't agree because you don't want to follow that part of the Bible.'"

Mars Hill was bad for women. And it gave ammunition to men to control and manipulate their wives.

SoS SGC Break

I will resume with the study guide critique on Monday.

But here is a good post from WTH concerning Driscoll's relationship with his wife, Grace. WTH pulls several things together to point out what most of us have already known. Putting it mildly, their relationship is not healthy.

Driscoll's policy on who can be friends with Grace?

Oh, Grace. If only you knew who you were in Christ. Then you would know when you were being abused and you wouldn't keep going along with your shyster husband's lame-brain plans.

Dear Grace, you really need to read my friend's open letter to you. You are so confused and clueless.

Driscoll's Scrubbed Scotland Sermon Found

He doesn't want you to know this. He doesn't want you to hear it. He doesn't want this sort of evidence out there along with all the other things concerning his sexocentric book "Porn Marriage" er I mean "Real Marriage". Because, you see, he wants to be taken seriously. He doesn't want people to know what was in his heart when he studied The Song of Solomon. He wants people to believe that he is a true Bible scholar and not a sensationalist attention seeker.

Well, folks. He is a sensationalist.

Here is a prime example:
Sex: A study of the good bits of Song of Solomon

I have yet to listen to this all the way through.
It really is too much for me to stomach.

Christian Literary Agent on Driscoll

Chip MacGregor, experienced and respected literary agent, speaks out on the evils of buying your way onto the NYT bestsellers list.

What's wrong with buying your way onto the bestsellers list?

Edited to add...

I know, I keep pointing to WTH on the best, most uptodate and comprehensive understanding of all things Mark Driscoll/Mars Hill. But just in case people aren't taking me seriously in this light, here are are two recent MUST READs from his blog.

Remembrance of Things Past

And

Linked Titles Speak for Themselves.

Driscoll Needs to Step Down

Comp and not-Comp women agree.

First the Comp one:
The Line at the Mars Hill Communion Table

Then the not-Comp one:
Mark Driscoll and His Mars Hill "Advisory" Board: Time to step down

Also, don't neglect looking at Wenatchee The Hatchet's blog. He has the most thorough, objective, info on Mars Hill that is humanly possible. His is the place to go for those who want to know more.

L.A. Times & Atheists on Driscoll

First the L.A. Times:

Can bestseller lists be bought?

Now The the Atheist:

So That's How Mark Driscoll's book got on the Best Seller's List.

Things don't look just real peachy for Driscoll.
And in all of this, I really feel sorry for co-author, Grace.

Janet Mefferd/Driscoll. Shots fired.

Mefferd is at it again.

She takes on Mark Driscoll's fake, paid off, claim to the honor of being a NYT best selling author.

He doesn't deserve it. He bought it with a whole lot of the other people's money.

Janet Mefferd on Driscoll's NYT best selling status

When you get a time, give it a listen.

Nothing illegal. But definitely unethical.

They are calling it a "train wreck". I predicted the 'train wreck' part some time ago.

And even before the predictions I made back in 2012, I predicted the train wreck Driscoll was heading toward on a friend's blog back in 2009.

Driscoll -- Fake Best Selling Author

Driscoll bought his way onto the list. He didn't earn it. He paid for it with real money.

Unreal Sales for Driscoll's Real Marriage

Shame on you Driscoll. When you have to pay this much money to buy your way onto the New York Times best sellers list, then you are definitely NOT a New York Times best selling author.

Besides being a plagiarizer, you are also a fake.

"Sexocentric Marriage" by Mark Driscoll

Also known as "Real Marriage" by Mark and Grace Driscoll.

Because, you see, according to Driscoll, lots of sex makes a good marriage in the mind of a husband. Sex is the center of a good marriage, hence the use of my clumsy, made-up, mock Latin word "sexocentric". Because it is Sexocentric marriages that Mark promotes in his book.

He says on page 164 that: "For a wife, sex comes out of a healthy relationship, whereas, for a husband it leads to one."


What, you say? Did I actually read the book to find this quote? No, I absolutely did not. I left that for the experts Wenatchee the Hatchet (WTH) and Wendy and Andy Alsup who, as former members of Driscoll's church, have kept and eye on him.

The Alsups state in their review on Mark's Sexocentric Marriage book that if for some reason Grace would become incapable of providing Mark with all the sex he needed or wanted or be incapable of any sex at all, "If that became the case, the majority of their marriage book would be useless to them."

I say all this for a reason.

I want to direct your attention to WTH's article discussing this in a bit more detail with the added information concerning Pastor Bill Clem who resigned from Mars Hill in 2013 and who also preached to single men on how to be able to love their (future) wives in non-sexual ways.

Mark Driscoll on Bill Clem leaving in 2013, Clem on ovarian cancer treatment and the need for husbands to love wives in non-sexual ways

Real Plagiarism in "Real Marriage"?

Speaking of "Real Porn" er... I mean "Real Marriage"...

It appears that portions of what Grace wrote were actually from another book that is not given credit.

The portions under question have nothing to do with the porn in other sections but is actual helpful info for the wounded soul. At least they were helpful to Grace.

Because those portions are helpful and because I'm so concerned about the wounded heart, part of me is glad to see evidence of her receiving healing some how from somewhere.

But, as WTH points out, plagiarism it plagiarism and I'm disappointed that the actual helpful parts of this book fall under this category.

Real Marriage Chapter 7, Part 2: Comparing Grace Driscoll's writing to Don Adler's writing from the Wounded Heart

Looks like Don Adler's "Wounded Heart" might be a good read. Like I said, I have a great concern for the inner healing of all the members of the Body of Christ.

What Is Traumatizing a Generation?

I'm sure many of you have seen this around.

I have seen it linked, but it was in places I couldn't link to until now.

So since EE has done the hard work, I'll just link to her post.

Oh, yeah.
What is traumatizing a generation?
Porn, my friend.
As bad as it is in the church with pushers like Mark Driscoll around (co-author of Real Porn  er... I mean Real Marriage), it truly is worse in other places.

Pornography Is Sexually Traumatizing an Entire Generation

WTH Critiques Driscolls' Sex/Marriage Book

Actually, it's not a full critique.

As he mentioned, there have been plenty of overview critiques and much of what was said doesn't need repeating.

However, detail man that WTH is, he has stumbled upon an oversight of sorts that has been missed by some of the overview critiques. It may not seem like much. But in light of what Mars Hill wants to be, what it actually is, and what it has done in order to put forward the façade that it presently has... this sort of thing is good to be aware of for Driscoll watchers and critiquers everywhere.

Real Marriage, Chapter 7-- Grace and Disgrace

Good Catch WTH (that's short for Wenatchee The Hatchet, not WHAT THE H***!?, which is what I usually say when looking at the latest shenanigans from the Driscoll camp.)

As has been said before, The Saga Continues.