Thursday, October 22, 2009

Boundaries, part III

All this talk about boundaries was leading up to something, as I have warned you.
I wanted to point out that it is no small thing to move a boundary mark where real estate is concerned. It is also no small matter to transgress people's personal boundaries, men, women, or children.
Just as this is true for property and person, so also is it true for scripture.
I am saddened by the fact that a boundary marker has been moved in the Bible book, Song of Solomon (SOS). But I wrongly accused a Major Shock Jock (MSJ) of doing so. Now I know it was moved before, and he just read a book, or two, or several on SOS that led him to believe that SOS is not chronological. I am saddened to say that I also read one of those books. It is called, The Act of Marriage.

I read this book long ago. My husband and I were given this book when we were married. And I thought it was a decent book back then. And for the most part, I'm okay with it now. Except for one thing.
In my opinion, they have moved a boundary marker. It is subtle and for noble reasons. Even so, the moving of this marker is what has opened the door for others to do some serious trampling of scripture in my strong opinion.
The LaHayes wanted to use SOS 2:6 for a euphemism for something sexual. I do not know if it originated with them or with someone else. But regardless, they knew they could not use it for something sexual if the book was written chronological because the couple are not even married until chapter three. Thus, it was declared, 'not chronological'.
Just as I heard MSJ flippantly declare it, with no support, so others make the same claim and find, more secret 'euphemisms' for sex.

Those following this blog know I've brought this up before with a little bit of evidence as to why I strongly disagree with the 'not chronological' take on SOS. I'm bringing it up again for two reasons. One, I'm acknowledging that MSJ didn't come up with this himself. He read others who said it first. He liked what they said and now teaches it as fact.

The second reason I brought this up again is because I want to show more evidence that SOS is, in fact, chronological. That though there may be euphemisms for sex in it, they do not occur before the middle of chapter three.

I will present this evidence later. For now I just want to say, I understand what the LaHayes were trying to do. But what they have accomplished is to move an ancient boundary marker, thus sowing to the wind. Now the body of Christ is reaping the whirlwind with renegade preachers ordering wives to perform certain things in the bedroom that were, at one time, against our nation's sodomy laws.

[I blogged on this June 27, 2009, A Lil' More on SOS 2:3 for those who missed it]


JaneDoeThreads said...

Boundaries is one of those areas I have a lot of conflict-anger with God in regards, which is rooted with my mother violating my boundaries [in every way] and then having or growing up with that whole 'honor thy mother-father' then add to that, later in life the whole submit to obey authorities [and the abuses done to women because the 'dicks' have Might on their side, and they claim God on their side, but when I read the scriptures I do see that aspect, that whole we got God on our side because we're the authority, etc] so

for me, I can't separate God from the Abuser...though yes, I do try, I claim the scriptures and try to 'renew' the mind but for me, its one day I see God as good the next, God as the totalitarian tyrant, if not the tyrant, the one who 'gives the permissions to' the evil [OT],

so, yea, I have that bi-polar relationship with God, Jesus, and I have learned, that 'denying' it or not saying it doesn't help because then the rage eventually boils over so now I just tell God what I think,

during those moments, while searching the Word and sometimes I just have to leave it...for my own sanity. Anyhow,

I have gathered a few things in this journey, and in regards to SOS,

when I read the book, which for years I wouldn't because just never felt compelled too, but w when I read it, I didn't get that whole 'sexual ed' course thing out of it, hardly,

I thought it was about the 'church' and Jesus or the New Jerusalem, that whole virgin bride in Rev thing...anyway, when I found out via reading what some in pulpits and ministries were saying I wasn't really 'shocked', hell they justify all Sorts of evils these days,

hiding behind their 'authority might' to do so. So, anyway, what opened up my eyes, to so much, wasn't my time in the church, but my time AWAY from the church, ironically, all those years I wasn't living that Christian life,

and while yes, I was in rebellion, on one side, on the other, I saw and learned a lot and I am finding that it probably is a lot of the reason I just can't wrap my mind around so much of what the norms of the Western church is, esp when it comes to what they indoctrinate women with,

and its from here, where I have decided, for me is the best way to 'de-mystify' a lot of the b.s. being spewed to women...

women, FACT, the rate of cancers of the cervix, go WAY up, with sodomy type sex. [and the risk of HIV and AIDS too, if your husband is unfaithful, and is there is sodomy type of sex, your chances go Way up, there also]

and its right there, that I think, many women aren't aware of and they go to these churches and hear those types of SOS teachings and not only are they warped, they are down right DANGEROUS TO ONE'S HEALTH.

I remember one fruitcake church I went too before my days of rebellion that a pastor told the congregation that a woman should submit and be sweet and sleep with her floundering of a husband, he used those SOS scriptures a lot too...I thought, what if she gets AIDS and I said something to the home group and this one woman said, 'well then That would be the Will of God and blah blah blah' and I told her, you're full of sht.

Needless to say, the elders told my hubby then, if you can't shut your wife up then leave church--

we left.

[that is one hilarious thing about being married then to a skeptic, he saw right through so much of the hype, being from UK and worked in Africa, in poorest regions, he saw through the hype--sadly he converted over to the JWs years later]

will continue this

JaneDoeThreads said...

continued [sometimes these things have word limits], here is this church and well, many others, using the SOS and that Peter scripture about submission to 'force women via guilt, which legally, we would call COERCION UNDER DURESS' because that is what it is,

coercing someone to do something against their values-or will with the threat of something,

often times to their own disadvantage and even danger. Why we have personal injury law, etc.,

what Christian men want to claim as their Right in marriage, they'd NEVER tolerate between those in CONTRACTS IN BUSINESS,

they play a Whole different ballgame there, don't they?

So, with the FACTUAL RISKS involved, in some [not all, not all oral sex is dangerous but women, need to be aware of the physical risks, period], and with some of the teachings, that are not just warped,

but ever notice, how they still claim the 'dangers' of the woman's body but what they want, is fine...that's another load of b.s. [to protect their sexual selfishness],

but, here's the thing...

so they say, submit and God says this and blah blah blah

and YOU know, the real physical risks,

and they say, well God will protect you, blah blah blah

remember this: when Satan tempted Jesus to jump off a cliff, and told Him, the angels will hold you up and protect you, and Jesus replied, THOU SHALL NOT TEMPT THE LORD THY GOD.

God does NOT tempt with evil, [James], so God wouldn't be saying, "now honey, you just go ahead and submit blindly and never mind the risks and while it may be Suicide, submit anyway, [and of course if you submit and get AIDs or Cancer, why then you can just blame the devil or more likely, if woman, blame yourself, you must have not Submitted enough"

but now, if you get on top of a cliff and wonder, whether or not to Jump, say your husband tells you too,

what do you say then? Will God, tell you, woman, to jump, but Jesus tell Satan, thou shall not tempt God?

See there is a conflict there.

That is the thing about a lot of what some teach from Bible, one rule to 'women' but in all other situations, it would be a Sin against God,


See my point is, some of the stuff from the pulpits and ministries JUST DEFIES ALL


And maybe, that is what we need, is just more common sense.

And what is so hilarious about this, is that, You'd have better chance, of surviving, jumping off a cliff now a days, with a parachute,

than you would, risking sodomy sex without protection with a lot of these so called Christian husbands. Or sleeping under that whole insane submit even though he's a WHORE, and risking disease, etc.,

or marrying some man who has already been caught cheating, lying, is controlling-abusive, etc.,

I mean, the garbage they are 'coercing women with that guilt and fear' is just that...manipulative b.s.,

just the same, with that Jesus, if you jump, the angels will hold you up.

Well, ladies, you'd be safer today,

taking the I'll close with this, you tube video, of base jumping, LOL,

the risks are high, but if you're going to Risk you life, LOL, at least, this would be a lot better rush,

than submitting to warped SOS teachings that are all for 'male benefit' leaving you hanging most likely, LOL [you know with that whole female bodies are dirty and if you touch them its masterbation and all the other b.s. excuses I've read that Christian men USE to get theirs at the expense of wives, SERIOUSLY PEOPLE, TO THOSE SOS TEACHERS-MEN, OUT THERE, --TAKE A FRICKING BIOLOGY COURSE, sheesh

ladies, here you go, before you submit to the NONSENSE,

it might be safer and you would get a lot more out of it, to do this:

there is just so many other better ways, to risk death, you know,

LOL...sorry I didn't write this better, but I think, you get my point. :) Jane

JaneDoeThreads said...

watch the video--[in post above]

at the end, woman, over 300 base jumps...

now, That, is empowerment.


Mara Reid said...

Funny thing, Jane.
Last night after I responded to your note on my Oct Update thread I started watching youtube videos on the FLDS and similiar groups.

And what I heard many of the men say over and over was, "I'm just obeying God," by having plural wives. And "God told me to do this."

God didn't tell them to do it. Their hearts and loins told them to do it and they are slapping a "thus saith the Lord" on it to get women to go along with it.

The Bible clearly says that we are to fear God and what He thinks OVER and ABOVE men and what they think. This doesn't just apply to men but to women as well. Maybe even especially women.

Hard to do, though, when men are in control of the pulpits and teach each other that women are easily deceived.

I'm telling you, women are no more easily deceived than men.
I'll repeat that because it bears being repeated and is a truth most often ignored.

Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
The church is full of preachers walking in darkness and spouting off darkness and calling darkness light.

This is why, as you said, we must search the scriptures ourselves. We do have to guard our hearts from pride because we don't want to fall into the same thing the men fall prey to. We have to seek the true Light. We have to humble ourselves and say, "God, I don't know. I need Your Light. More Light Lord. More Light."

And I think you know by now.
God is not offended at your anger.
He'd rather you be honest about what is in your heart than for you to hide it and let it fester and be a hypocrite.

I have faith in both Him and you.
He is able to keep you.
He is able to love you to the place of a victory you never heard of before.

How do I know?
Because I have faith for a place of victory for myself as well.
I haven't fully obtained it yet, but I am on my way and invite any and all, male or female, to get to that place.

Men who oppress women and say 'thus saith the Lord' can't even get started on the road you and I are already on. They are on a different road. It it pointed in the direction of their own destruction.

Keep on Jane.
God loves so much.
He loves the real you, not the cookie cutter you others want women to be.
He loves every part of you and weeps for your wounds and rejoices for your victories.
And you have many more victories to go. But that doesn't mean there aren't some valleys before those victories.

p.s. for the record, OS used to be against the US sodomy laws. Not making a moral judgement on it. Just noting that that is how it used to be.
And yes, anal is always evil, and destructive.
If you have links on this type of info, I wouldn't mind having them.

Mara Reid said...

We crossed posted.

Watched the base jumping vidio.
I love the song.
And the video was just beautiful.

I'm older and probably couldn't actually base jump. My chiropractor would kill me.
But I'd still like to try floating on that fan thing they use to train jumpers when they do those syncronized stunts.
I think it'd be fun.
Maybe I should put that on my bucket list.

JaneDoeThreads said...

Hi, still reading your blog, its about the only one right now I feel 'o.k.' to read, God has really been putting the 'stops' on my internet use, for the time being,

because I'm learning to 'know Him', without the going through 'third parties' which tends to get me confused [long story] but anyway,

God has been doing, A LOT, good things, just showing/revealing to me so His Word, in some other 'miracles' and so forth,

I realized though--why God lead me to those base jumping videos. LOL,

it took a while--but it eventually became clear to me. One of the videos, as I've been watching a LOT of them, a man says, the one thing they have to train themselves to do,

is to 'defy' nature, their 'natural' inclination NOT TO FALL, because to fall means death.

Well, its the same for Walk in the Spirit, takes the same kind of Faith--that it takes for a person to Jump, with nothing but a parachute on, and to Fight--that 'natural' inclination,

to 'save our life', to not 'fall', to be 'in control',

the Flesh.

To Walk in the Spirit takes Faith which works by Love--and it IS scary, [Peter walking on water] at first, at times even,

because, its UNNATURAL--its like jumping off a cliff, with that parachute,

maybe it will open, and we will stay in control of our body and flight or

maybe it won't...maybe that storm/trial will smash us right into that wall or maybe, our 'flesh' tells us, that the parachute, Jesus, won't open for us, etc.,

and, that having to 'train' one self to Fall--

is the same thing, as having to RENEW OUR MINDS WITH THE WORD OF GOD.

Same exact thing--and it takes, Practice.

Trials and tribulations and patience and learning and yes, falling,

a lot of falling. To be able, to learn how to walk,

or, learning how to, one day


God is how He can show us things like that.


if you want to see a really Amazing story--about base jumping, a three part series [can do in about an hour],

a True story, one of two of the most DANGEROUS BASE JUMPS ever, off the Trango, in Pakistan. Anyway, see this video, to the right, click on, where it says,

and watch the documentary--because its an Amazing story, one of the men, this was ONLY his second base jump--one was a mountain climber, another a jumper, and without the other, they could have never accomplished this,

but there was another miracle, that happened, in Pakistan. God is just amazing, and there are a lot of lessons, to be learned, in this story. About faith--perseverance, and friendship, and service, inspiration--so I'm posting here today.

With Love,