Back in the day, someone loaned me a copy of "The Purpose Driven Life".
I couldn't get beyond the first few lines of the first chapter.
The book opened up with the sentence, "It's Not About You."
My response?
"No kidding, 'it's not about me'! It has never been about me. It's always about him."
Who was I talking about when I said 'him'? My ex who is on the Narcissistic spectrum. Being married to a Narcissist taught me early on that it would never ever be about me in our marriage. It could only be about him. When people asked me why I divorced him, my short answer was, there wasn't room in our marriage for two people. Only one. And that one was never me.
As God was trying to lead me into His healing work on my heart, I began to learn that, actually, yes, sometimes it is about me. It is about my healing from Narcissistic abuse. And it was about my eventual escape from that relationship.
That book, "The Purpose Driven Life" was a huge best seller. And the message in it to not be selfish, definitely has its place. It was written by a man, Rick Warren, to all Christians. I suspect that he thought that all others needed to hear this "Don't be self-centered" message just like he needed to hear it.
But the problem with projecting this on everyone is that it doesn't apply to everyone equally.
I gave a personal example above. Now I will tie it into the most recent To Love, Honor, and Vacuum post: "On Modesty: We shouldn't sacrifice Teen Girls Well-being for Adult Men's Comfort".
I read the post when it came out on Friday and this part kept going around in my brain.
...I had rather polite interactions with men (on Twitter) who seemed like totally reasonable guys, explaining that we were supposed to be our brother’s and sister’s keeper, and men were visual and do lust, and so women and girls should dress accordingly.
When I said, “if we’re to be a sister’s keeper, and if we know this message does harm (to teenage girls), then when does she get to matter?”, the response from several was, “that’s certainly sad, and we don’t want that to happen, but it needs to be understood how men are.”
So once again–men’s comfort matters more than women’s well-being.
And it just reminded me of the first few words of Rick Warren's book. "It's not about you."
These men live in the land of, "It's all about me". Their comfort and all Christian dialogue has to be about what men need, think, and feel. Women don't count. It's never about women, including teenage girls.
The male-centric message you teach from the pulpit hurts women and children? Sorry, that's just the way it has to be. It's all about men. Women and children need to understand how men are. Men don't need to understand how women and children are because it is all about men
Here is where Rick Warren's words should be applied. Men need to stop making it all about them. Because in God's economy, it isn't just about men.
10 comments:
Mara, I understand your point. I think things are different though regarding this issue, men's lust vs. girls' modesty. We're talking about a behavior (girls' clothing) that makes it VERY hard for men to obey God. What do boys or men do that makes it VERY hard for women to obey God? Nothing that I can think of.
Understand my point?
What do boys and men do that makes it very hard foe women to obey God?
Nothing that you can think of because you are living inside your own head and lack empathy for the very difficult road that male leaders and male agree-ers have made for women to walk on in order to "please God".
The verse Matthew 23:4 comes to mind.
"And they tie up heavy burdens and lay them on people’s shoulders, but they themselves are unwilling to move them with so much as their finger."
In religious circles that prefer men over women, there are always, and I mean ALWAYS, tons more rules for women to worry about than for men. And tons more judgement against women than men. Women get judged. Men get passes.
I've been doing this Christian thing for a long time.
And I've come to the conclusion that the church has lied to me (and most women and most children. And hey, most men, while we are talking about it).
And I mean the church has lied. Not God or Jesus or even the Bible. The Bible agrees with this and Sheila's post. (Mt 5:29)
Those lies proclaimed by the male leadership and perpetuated and enforced by men (and expected by boys who are waiting to get to their position of authority) and a few token 'special' females have destroyed marriages, women, children, and also men.
Those lies have taken away all the spiritual authority from women and given women all the responsibility and judged them for not fitting in the tiny box/cookie cutter mode built for them while caring the lion share of responsibility.
I was told if I did 'family' a certain way that it would make my husband happy and my children would follow God.
When husband turned out to be on the Narcissistic spectrum and my children saw the hypocrisy and misogyny of both him and the church (even a decent church with male leadership that had more character than my ex) they walked away.
Then, after being lied to by the church (and my ex), I was accused by the church (the church in general, not the nice local one I was attending at the time.) and my ex of doing 'it' wrong. 'It' being follow all the extra rules and expectations piled up on me. They expected a degree of unattainable perfection while saying something about 'boys will be boys' concerning the ex
The church lays heavy burdens on women and girls, expecting so much more from them than men and boys. And then judge women for not being able to hold up under that burden.
When we ask for men to lift a finger to help, like STOP BLAMING CHILDREN FOR THE LUSTS OF MEN. the pushback is crazy.
Even from decent men who are willing to talk and reason without belittling and name calling. Because this male-centric view is so engrained in our church culture, calling it out feels unreasonable to those who have benefited from it for years.
I agree with Sheila.
The time has come for the wellbeing of our daughters to not be buried in the back yard while the lusts of men are excused and placed on the top shelf of all things important in the church.
But Mara, I asked what boys or men do to make it hard for women to obey GOD, not obey male pastors or the church. That's my point - that men struggling with lust and teen girls' immodesty are disappointing GOD, not mere humans, which is why men are arguing that girls' behavior needs to change. Name something please that boys or men do that make it hard for women to obey GOD, the only one who really matters.
Tom, trying to say this in a reasonable manner.
From where I stand, you don't appear to be a 'big picture' person. You appear to be able to miss the whole forest because of the trees.
Our entire culture turns women into consumable objects. It is everywhere. Advertising music, football games etc. ad nauseum
The church should be above that. The church should stop looking at women and teen girls the way that the world does. But instead of doing this, the church can be even worse. Instead of sanctifying men, it blames women for being women.
You say to list one thing, I displayed an entire real godless issue that women deal with daily. It is something that Christian men can stop being a part of because this does make it hard on women to obey God.
Christian men and boys can stop objectifying women and blaming their lust on women. This DOES make it hard to be God focused and obey Him. If you've got the clothes police harassing you, embarrassing you, bringing attention to little things that aren't that big of a deal and making you think that your body is evil when it isn't.
Again, I guess it is hard for you to see the log of misplaced blame in the masculine eye while you go after the splinters of women being female, having curves, and not being able to hide them to the satisfaction of one man or another.
Jesus put the burden of men's lusts squarely where it belongs. On the shoulders of men. Men don't want to take responsibility for it so they push it off on women, just like the man Adam wanted to push off his own guilt on the woman.
Women have left churches and left God because of the actions of men and boys in the church who were not held accountable by their churches. It is rampant. And it is anchored in the attitude of men and boys believing like the cultural that women/teen girls are consumable objects rather than seeing their personhood in God. This is a huge stumbling block to women, to be so objectified by men who feel that God doesn't call men into account for this sin against women.
Mara, I think you're getting closer to understanding what I've been asking, but I don't think you're quite there yet. How does Christian men and pastors' treatment of women make it more difficult for women to obey GOD? I can see how it makes it difficult to obey these sinful Christian men, but what are these girls and women doing wrong IN GOD'S EYES?
Trying to please men rather than God because of pressure from men to do so.
Pressed in to being Man-pleasers.
Being hyper-focused on personal appearance to the neglect of seeking out God and putting God first.
Being made to believe that the way they dress has something to do with holiness when really it's about the heart. Because God looks at the heart.
Letting men define holiness rather than seeking God and His Word for it.
Believing man-made rules about hair, make-up, certain kinds of clothing, will save them or make them better than women who don't follow those rules, self-righteous.
Being viewed as a consumable sexual object can have any number of sinful outcomes.
Finally rebelling and say, okay, you know what, if that's what God and the church thinks of me then that's what I will be.
Turning inward, retreating, and leading a fearful life, far and away from any calling God might have for them, retreating from church, and forsaking fellowship with believers.
Walking in unforgiveness towards those who judged them so harshly.
I could go on.
When a woman is sinned against in this way, there are many ways to react.
Good list. Thanks. Ok, yes, let's push back on guys and ask them to not just blame the girls. Let's urge and encourage them to exercise more self-control.
That being said, the clothes that women wear are much more form-fitting and snug than what guys wear. I know there are societal reasons for this, and that some guys will lust no matter what the girl/woman is wearing, but many female clothes certainly don't help guys be pure in thought.
And now something else. I have little belief in the supernatural. I don't see how it's possible that there could be a good and just God. A quote I like: "The only acceptable excuse for God is ... that He does not exist."
Eh, okay.
So you were and Atheist the whole time and were just messing with me.
Am I angry with this? No. My second son is an Atheist and we get along just fine. He is an Atheist for moral reasons. He saw the immorality and misogyny (against his mother) of the church and walked away from it all.
Actually relieved rather than angry. Was more worried about how hard you appeared to be making things the fault of women and children and appearing to think that God was behind it all. Now I see that this was all something together different.
Was going to re-post something from my own 'way back machine' if this conversation kept going religiously south. I still might.
No, I wasn't messing with you. Even though I don't have the faith I used to, I still like reading and following various Christian blogs/boards, to "keep 'em honest" I guess you could say.
I don't lack belief because of something that's happened or not happened to me. I lack belief for the most valid reason: lack of good evidence of a God, and too many logical inconsistencies.
I still find it hypocritical that women dress sexily and then get upset when men react sexually.
Okay, fine.
I find it unjust that our culture sexualizes women, pressures them to dress like women, then judges them for it.
Women are judged for being too fat, too thin, too old, not sexy enough, too sexy, for being dumb, for being smart, too ethnic, to pale, etc.
Saw a cartoon, one time, that I though illustrated the sweeping judgement women face fairly well.
The first frame was two stick figures. One was at the chalk board and added 1+1=3. The other figure said, "You are bad at math." In the second frame, the one doing the adding 1+1=3 is made a female stick figure with a skirt. And the other figure says, "Women are bad at math."
I have throw back Thursday scheduled to post tomorrow. It's another illustration of men judging women and giving men a pass.
Whatever your history, I don't know. I only know mine and what it's like to walk this earth as a female and trying to raise two daughters in this culture that hypersexualizes girls and teens. And I've had a belly full.
Also, just as a side note, many women and teen girls in the church aren't dressing sexually. They are just wearing regular clothes. But because some man sees skin above the knees or wants to stare when she bends over, she is judged for being immodest. Most all women have faced this as teens. Not just the few who are actively trying to dress sexually.
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