Thursday, February 17, 2011

Loving Respect or Kowtowing

My regulars are already aware of the thread over at Suzanne's Bookshelf and have commented on it. That thread has shot up to over a hundred comments.
But those who visit here less frequently, I wanted to make you aware of it.

I have been aware of Suzanne for several years, even longer than Charis/Gem who is also in my blog roll. She's a studier of Greek and Hebrew and cares about honesty in translations.

Somewhere in the middle of the comments I bring up this clip from Piper who is not Patriarchal or Quiverfull, as far as I can tell. But he still teaches version of wifely submission that many of us find distrubing. Yet even with the video evidence plainly displayed, people who are otherwise reasonable get funny and defensive when really they should just say, "Piper is wrong here."

One commentor is convinced that Piper models a good way for a wife to lovingly respect and submit to her husband when her husband pressures her into gross sin. He calls it a confrontation. But in my book it falls terribly short of confrontation.

Edited to add: Thanks to Hannah from over at Emotional Abuse and Your Faith for the link to video of Piper. She's another old friend on my blog roll.


Gem said...

Odd how hard it seems for this commenter to put himself in those shoes. . . How would he respond to an authority figure- say a pastor- who was armtwisting him to "engage in group sex":
"Derek, I expect your enthusiastic participation in the Sunday evening orgy!"

WHY is there even any expectation from a wife that she has to respond to such demands with a "lovingly respectful and submissive" demeanor? Is that how Derek would respond to his wayward pastor?

Mara Reid said...

I don't know, Gem.
When I suggested that only men who fear strong women would expect such groveling he got really offended. I don't know if that means I hit too close to home or if he was just in a general defensive, "don't say you ever, ever dare allude to any imprefection in my hero/sacred cow."

And he never addressed me again after that.

It is quite amazing how huge this blind spot is in some.
It's huge and they are so determined to protect their golden calf of a doctrine, there is no reasoning with them.

I say how hard you tried to reason with him. He wouldn't answer you either.