Thursday, January 14, 2010

Knowing God, 4

Ephesians 3:19 and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled up with all the fulness of God.

Here's an excerpt from another prayer, this time the Apostle Paul's. In verse 16 he prays that the Ephesians would be strengthened so that in verse 17 Christ can live in their hearts and in verse 18 they can be able comprehend the magnitude of God. Then by verse 19 he talks about being able to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge so that they can be filled with all the fullness of God.

A preacher I listen to once said that a person could write "this is possible" in the margin of their Bible next to verse 19. And I have done that ever since.

Paul wouldn't tell us that we could aspire to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge if it weren't possible. It is possible if you refer back to verse 16 and know that we can be strengthened to get to this point.

Paul wouldn't tell us that we may be filled up to all the fulness of God if it weren't possible. Again we must refer back to the previous verses and understand that we need "to be strengthened with power though His Spirit in the inner man" (from Ephesians 3:16). And we get this strengthening "according to the riches of His glory".

Just like Moses prayed, "If I have found favor in Thy sight, let me know Thy ways that I may find favor."

May God grant us strength in the inner man by the riches of his glory, so that Christ can live in our hearts and that we can actually know a love that is beyond our natural ability to know, and contain the fulness of God within ourselves.


Mara Reid said...

Jane, I was writing these Knowing God posts before Jan 1st and they are set to automatically come up. So I'm not ignoring what you are saying. In truth, I think you bring up something very important. I've just been too busy and have had to skim your posts. We're down a Caseworker at work (on vacation) so that means the rest of us have to pick up the slack. I've hardly seen the inside of my office all week.
I'm planning on reading your posts a little more carefully to make sure I understand where you are coming from because I want to write a post specifically addressing the topic.
I'm toying with the title...
"Spark, Spunk, Life, Fire, and Wild Women"
WhaDaYaThink? ;)

JaneDoeThreads said...

I think it's really good, don't worry about responding in a time frame, I wrote a lot,

wanted to give a few days for you to absorb all the material I wrote, because I replied on several areas and it covered a lot, besides time you know, so not a problem there, when you can reply fine, if you can't that's fine too.

I love the Knowing God posts, in fact they go right along with where I'm at right now so they to me, are the Holy Spirit speaking to me, confirmation, etc., Recently too, I've been thinking a lot on 'lies' and just how many 'lies' some live and say [me, for instance...not like 'lying' but not living truth, which looking at it now, is the same as lying--not disclosing the full truth and so forth, hiding, so forth], anyway,

for me in Knowing God I am finding out just how much of a 'liar' I was for so many something I was not or lying to protect myself, etc., for whatever reasons but when you add them all up, and then, I thought, Satan, the father of lies and all liars...

God, those who worship God must do so in Spirit and in I am doing some reflection in a Huge way there. [and repentance] So anyway, I'm happy you are doing the Knowing God series because its right along where I am at,

and I do believe God put you in my life to guide me, actually I've prayed about it, so, you're kind of like my Paul right now [Paul to Timothy] so keep on a writing--it IS the Holy Spirit.

I just haven't responded in writing because I've been mulling over each Knowing God posts every day. And it was in my asking Jesus why I feel numb and not desiring often to know Him [like in Truth, ok being real honest here, why sometimes I resist Him and I know its that sin nature], and in dealing with Truth, about my rebellious nature, and facing that yes, pain in myself from life-was/is a lot of it Mara but a lot of it is my 'own' sinful self--and Facing that, never really faced it before because I always had the 'pain' to hide behind and it was excuse,

but to Know God, I can no longer hide and use pain as excuse--time to come clean on a LOT, because I am finding, to Know God, the lies have Got to go...and it's not easy, by no means, it really isn't esp when one like me, has lied so much to protect/self-preservation,

what I didn't realize though, is just how much those 'lies' add up, situation on top of situation that is all connected to lies somewhere, and by lies I'm including fornication [breaking promises] and being fake and all that---not necessarily just lying to people directly, but for me, mine was not coming forward, and withholding info--which, is the same as lying too,

or claiming one thing and living another, been thinking on that one a lot too. Just a lot of things Mara...what being Authentic, really means, etc. Biggest thing for me Mara, was how many years I 'thought' I was saved and so good and really was a child of hell, literally--and so, when God in His grace revealed to me Truth, well, you do see things differently--I really b.s. myself on So many things, it's not even funny, and All that time, I thought, I was just a victim in this cruel world,

but I was Just as much a part of that dark world as everyone else--if not, in many ways I was worse than many who did hurt me. Yea, Mara, seeing Truth, is part of Knowing God, I'm seeing that, more and more and more...

coming clean, really clean...and how lying [in all its forms] and being in that darkness [for me, lot out of fear] is NOT easy, anyone who says it is,

is, lying. Because human nature [flesh--at least mine, won't speak for no one else] likes to remain in that hiding space-from God--because to come out of hiding, means to be vulnerable and naked,

now I know how Adam and Eve felt with that nakedness...


JaneDoeThreads said...

in addition-in being vulnerable and naked [in Truth] is not just toward's God but others,

and for me, that was where I hid in lies, of all kinds, direct and indirect, because I did not Trust God to protect me [and it is here where I did have a lot of hate too], but not only that--it is also where 'protecting self' was more important than walking in 'love' towards another, there is no Fear in Love,

now I'm seeing a little about what really means. And That means, coming to Truth about how much I don't 'love', and being Truthful about that. For years Mara I hated people, I really did--I just didn't face it, anyway, for me my life of living a lie, a.k.a. hiding and hate--started as young child--with my mother,

I learned a lot about lying and pretending and living in a fantasy world then--and that just developed over time--every time truth got me ran over/abused, I would learn to lie better, does that make sense?

And I brought that into my belief in Christ--in my young days, I loved my hiding place more than I loved Christ, in fact, I believe I hated God because of my mother, my life, etc., and its just now, 27 years later, I'm seeing it, facing it, and having to come to grips with it and coming to Truth,

Religion 'hides' all that, you know, the do's and do nots, why it offers that "Look God I'm obeying LIE" and the comparisons, why the so many hang up on 'doctrines about what others should do, like wives submit', it's much easier than facing Truth,

about how much we can love our selves and sins we want to hang onto, rather than Really loving Christ. To Know God, all that has to be dealt with, to Worship, truly worship God must be in Spirit and in Truth,

but that's not just the recognition of, that is also Living in Truth--and that is where the 'removing the dross' begins, all the past lies and having to come clean. When there is abuse--it adds a whole other set of problems, what I'm sorting through now, with God. It is on this that having to come truthful about all the anger and resentment, I have including towards God--

the religious like to sweep all that under the run under 'ye should and can't be this way' but the Truth is, we ARE this way--to Get that garment that Jesus will cover us with, we First have to be naked---not covered up with the leafs like Adam and Eve. That leaf, has to be REMOVED, for God's covering.

To do that--one has to come to Him, in full Truth--nasty lies and sins and all...

until then, we really, are still hiding behind those bushes.


JaneDoeThreads said...

Knowing God, problem is, for years Mara, I was still behind those bushes--telling others that I knew God--when in fact, I was still hanging on, to that leaf, to cover my own nakedness.

[all the time thinking I was saved because I believed in Jesus--I'm beginning to think,there is far more, to what 'believing on' is, than how it's construed]. And the thing that is hardest about coming out from the bushes, is just how 'comfortable' those bushes are--how safe they are--can I trust God really, to not destroy me, like so many whom should have loved and protected me, Did do just that?

OR who just flat out weren't there [father], at all? Or who were distant/removed and passive aggressive [second husband], violent [first husband and a two year live in years later] or a pathological sociopath liar [current husband]?

And all those in between I lied to--even hiding my two girls from their fathers due to their drugs/abuse [more lies there] because I lost one daughter due to being truthful and the system and wasn't going to be ripped apart again--so I lied, to protect but still, they are lies,

lies, to hide, to not reveal, to stay behind walls, were Survival or be eating up by Wolves, and Where was God? and oh how 'sin' loves that one...held captive by Satan but--not always against my will, if I come to Truth,

oh yes, those bushes were safe...for God I believed orchestrated it all and for some reason I was now come Clean from all that---to come to Truth when I don't really trust in Truth--

because it betrayed me before--when I was most vulnerable. [childhood]

Religions gives all the answers, you Must they say,

Truth, goes beyond the 'you must' to uncover all that hinders--even the desire to stay hidden, safe, to not let the fingers be pried off...I suppose I could lie and say, sure, OK God, but it would still be a lie--

or maybe, its coming out from those bushes then running back behind them, either way---in Light and in Truth, one has to come out from the bushes, naked, vulnerable, and just hope for the best.

I think-that is what is called


Therefore, truth and faith---truth has to come before Faith, so we really aren't even in Faith until we come into Truth.



JaneDoeThreads said...

Conclusion---to Know God, I am finding, now this past year [after all those years, I want those reading this to really take heed to this--how we can 'think' we are Christian but really are deceived], that God and Lies just don't mix.

That includes, going to God with all the 'right' things to say, not being honest. More though, facing the 'I really don't want too's' within our self, I know I should but I don't want to', which is hard because it means facing our lack of love towards Him for whatever reason, our love for self first--I think, when we 'deny' that, we live a lie, no matter What we may confess or say,

when it's just better to say, OK Jesus, you want this but you know, I really don't 'want' to, so what do I do about this? I am finding, that when I am honest, really honest--about my feelings Then He talks--to me, and then my heart begins to change--it was Here that I saw just how much Doubt and Unbelief I really was in--and all in all, it really comes down to Unbelief.

[unbelief opposite of faith and faith requires Truth]

IF I don't believe in His love--I cannot be in Faith either--but I can't begin to have Faith in His Love until I get out of those bushes in my heart/life and get in Truth--in the Light, and expose all that ugly darkness, even the dark things I hang onto---even delight in,

oh, did I say that! Oh, but yes I did, in fact, it really was like a brick off my shoulder when I finally admitted to God, yes, there are some sins I delight in even though I know they are destructive and hate them at same time--I wasn't just some 'unwilling victim' and oh, that was hard because we are NOT supposed to be like that--you know, we are supposed to shun sin and the darkness,

but we can't Shun something we are not Honest about, can we? But the thing is, God already KNOWS our human heart and He says so, time and time again--it is from this place, of admitting, that I found the freedom to say, OK God, well, I need your help to change those desires--

and I found, God all those years, couldn't change me because of all the dishonesty--the refusal to admit--how yes, I wanted to do bad things, in my heart--so NOT religious eh,

I didn't want to be a 'good girl', a boring, lifeless, oppressed and beat down good girl. Oh, that was another 'lie' I believed in--it took a while to realize that 'good girls' also hide in sin--religious Pride.

Pride comes in various forms--rebellious pride or religious look at how good I am pride--but it's pride all the same. But you know, pride is another LIE, another bush, that we hide in because it means we aren't vulnerable,

but remember yesterday I was reading Psalms--that David said, God is His refuge--His Hiding Place. ONLY GOD can change me from inside--desires and all--all the attempts are futile, vanity--

attempts are 'lies', I think--because I've failed at all of mine so they must be lies. My point is-to really Know God, I think, that maybe, first, we have to get to Know ourselves, to Really know ourselves,

in HIS LIGHT, HIS TRUTH, and not just in that 'you're a sinner' religious cliche--but to Really, know thyself, to the core, to see the desires and all that. To admit--to come clean,

even on the 'I don't wanna's', Religion is talk--


JaneDoeThreads said...

I'm beginning to find, to Know God, is just that-KNOWING, step by step by step coming out of those bushes, into Light, into His presence, before Him, naked, sinful, and stop the avoidance via religion and I'm talking the mainstream today's current Christianity--confessing all the right things and attempting--

telling Other's the right things, that is what Jesus meant, blind leading the blind--both in darkness.

And admitting to God fear, fear of Him, mistrust, anger, resentment, doubts, all of it. TRUTH

I think--That is what it means, the Truth shall set you free, not this 'truth' about God is love and that mean person is not of God, etc., in that direct object sort of way [and I think really, hiding is staying in that comparisons and pointing out the wrongs here and there],

but Truth, setting us Free, I think, is facing Truth about ourselves To God, to Jesus, because it takes That Truth, for that room where God can begin to work--in us--to show us who HE is, that we ain't Holy or good--but He loves us and covers us while changing us [I think, I'm still finding out],

this I think--is what the Cross is--to look on the Cross, in Truth, not that, oh He died for us, but that, it's all these things I've hid, that He took on and died for--to really KNOW that and what it really means...and He did this, while we were behind those bushes and ungodly.

I am finding, there is a Huge difference--in knowing this, mentally, you know, confessing/religion and all---and

Knowing it, in Truth, to really KNOW Him--to really KNOW the Cross--what it really IS, for us, all those failed religious attempts--in that lie. Maybe that, is what Paul means, by I die daily--

still mulling over that one. The religion of Christianitism, is not just toxic where misogyny is concerned, it's toxic in that it's a lie--the Truth, is not in the 'anity's or isms', but in

living and breathing and being...

in that Truth--at the Cross, to be IN that-place, coming out of the bushes--to God, to Jesus, removing the leaf--and letting Him, cover us and learning, to walk with Him and Trust Him...step by little step. To Know Him, one has to Walk with Him---in Truth, all truth, problem is, we can 'think' we are walking with Him when really, we are just crouching and hiding behind the bushes just saying the 'right' things--all the while, still in darkness. That is what Jesus meant, I think, I stand at the door of your heart--knocking--get out of the bush HE says, where ARE you, He says, it's not until we step out and say, here I am, do we even Begin--to really Know, who He is. And it's a scary thing---to come to Him, naked, ashamed---one has to peel away the Religion, of Christianitism---to do this.

Love, Jane


Mara Reid said...

Jane: "I learned a lot about lying and pretending and living in a fantasy world then--and that just developed over time--every time truth got me ran over/abused, I would learn to lie better, does that make sense?"

Makes perfect sense, Jane.
1. All people (have or still do) live in a fantasy world. It's a form of self protection. Self-righteousness is the perfect example of living in a fantasy world. People pretend their filthy righteousness rags aren't filthy of rags. Happens all the time.

2. When I worked in residential, I noted how some of my girls lived in a very deep fantasy world. It was a world they had to create for the sake of survival because the real world was far to painful to deal with.
The problem, though, is that these worlds can have such a hold on you that if/and when you get to the place you don't need them anymore, it's very difficult to break free.
The survival skill developed in hell become a hell of it's own once you come out of the physical hell.

Mara Reid said...

I think I've told you before that you are an answer to prayer.

I saw a very angry feminist posting somewhere who literally hated all men, thought all men were perverts and only wanted to missuse women, children, and animals etc. And I prayed for her. I prayed that God would show me how much He loved her and other wounded, bitter feminists who hated men and hated Him.

And God brought me you.

My point is, you say I'm helping you. But in truth, I'm fumbling around not sure what to do. But God, in all His merciful love toward you and me is using a little bit of my fumbling and a whole lot of your seeking, seeking, and seeking of Him to do a work in you.

All I can do is write a little here and there then watch you take off with it and get to the very depths of you soul... opening your vulnerable places to Him so that He can do the work.

And I praise God for it.
He's answering my prayer and proving to me that in spite of what stupid men think... Stupid men who preach against Jezebel and feminism.
In spite of those men, God is far more concerned with the soul of a woman, any woman, the most bitter among women, than most men could ever dream. He's more concerned with who she is and what He made her to be in full freedom than what stupid men try to turn her into and box her down to.

His love goes that deep. His love covers that completely. His love can reach what men label worthless and past being reached.

So keep on.
Perhaps you blaze a trail for others to follow past the misogynic, death doctrines of (some) men and into the loving arms of the Living God.

Love you and the work of God in you.
Sometimes I just read and am awed and am glad you don't require a response to everything. Because much of it needs no response. It stands well enough on its own.

JaneDoeThreads said...


bad day yesterday [confronting more of the deep negativity, etc] and with the bent to suicide/rationalizations...facing Years of 'recycled life', or better 'recycled self', that recycling trash--internalized 'white trash' belief--all the way back to childhood And questioning predestination [of which by last night I got some answers from God on that one...I do not believe in predetermination/lack of Free Will any more--though I was questioning it, Calvinism--but through a website with Tons of scriptures, All scriptures that the Holy Spirit had jumped out at me this entire year---about my backsliding, all of it, that chapter of questioning was resolved last night-and I realize now that my conversion when I was younger was indeed a shallow one [not on the rock] AND here's the best part,

Jesus told me about the fourth stage--that Honest and Good Heart--bears fruit to completion,

remember what I told you about Truth? There is is...right there, we can't be at that fourth stage [hard ground where Satan steals the seed, shallow ground where joy at first then trials/fall, shifty ground where cares of this life/fall--and then good and honest ground/broken up --Isaiah--brings the fruit-one has to Get to that place, some never do...or they do but they fall and by their own Will they do not repent--Rev, Jesus said return to your first love, REMEMBER WHENCE YOU HAVE FALLEN AND REPENT or I will Remove the lampstand--that holds the oil that gives the light--ten virgins parable, etc.,]

so facing some hard truths on that one in my life/self. Anyway, dealing with all this, I was browsing, God lead me to this, on another blog, I saw it and thought of sending it to you, yesterday--but I was in too dark of mood,

sending it to you now--to Bless you today, and to Thank you, for all you've done for me. It takes come time to watch---but worth it. I know God was speaking to me through it yesterday--