Thursday, January 21, 2010

Knowing God, 6

Hosea 2:19 and I will betroth you to me forever;
Yes, I will betroth you to Me in righteousness and in justice, In lovingkindness and in compassion.
Vs 20 And I will betroth you to Me in faithfulness,
Then you will know me.

This one is awesome so I saved it for last.

He has so much to give to us. He has so much about Himself He wants us to know. He is rightous and just, He's faithful and true. He's compassionate and abounds toward us in lovingkindness.

He wants to show us this about Himself. When we understand these things, it is a process of getting to know Him. And getting to know what all these things actually mean deep down in our spirits rather than knowing them with a limited, religious, shallow understanding.

And it is a process.

Knowing God's love when we first give our hearts to Him is different than knowing that love after He has put up with our sorry selves for 10, 20, 30 years.

It is a growing closer, a revealing, an ascention. As the bride of Christ He wants to betroth us in all these good things. And when we get it, THEN we will fully know Him.


JaneDoeThreads said...


this is odd, goes right with what I wrote this morning,

I am realizing just how little I knew God but was following or attempting to follow and Ideal. It took, hitting bottom of my faith, questioning it and I've not ever dared to question whether Jesus was real or not--for me to realize, just how much religion rather than relationship, has poisoned my lens--where I've been lacking in Heart. I wanted what was real, and am finding,

its only by Walking, daily, not the Idealism, that we find, Him, that we find, the Real Him.

I just had and still have some much garbage on the inside that kept me from knowing...still a lot of dark--that needs to be purged,

its almost like this force--I think its from all the open doors from the rage, from the abuse, and those rooms, will have to be cleaned out, if you know what I mean. This can't be done with Idealism--I see that now, or through 'the faith of others', I was getting to that place this summer, but ran away, the isolation was hard but it was also when the enemy hit hard too--but I am finding, that to Listen, to those promptings, is necessary--it was the Religion, that I heeded and wasn't aware of it...religion from doctrines that were so embedded in me, now I know it was the enemy using Religion to keep me from really knowing through Faith.

But Faith is real--a process, through real life.

One has to walk through the doubts to learn what faith is, truly is, and be honest about them. I ran away from them...because we are told, you are to believe and this and that...I was afraid to doubt because being afraid of not measuring up--which I don't. Religion is such pretense and a clever means of hiding ourselves...saying all the right things and all...I also had to come to terms with the fact that anger can be two-fold, anger at God but also just anger, but then, in that anger, justifying hanging onto things...not really wanting to let go because then, we are not 'right' anymore--does that make sense? I guess what I am trying to say, is that, Faith begins, with the, this is how I am, who I am, right now, right here...and I don't know, you, or what to do, or how to change, etc., or whatever it is.

and then, just waiting...

rather than trying in religion to 'cure' it. I can't cure it, you know, that law of sin and all that...its too strong for me, it sometimes even scares me because I'm afraid if I don't fight it it will take me over and I would be lost. But maybe that is where Trust begins,

guess I'll just have to find out.



Mara Reid said...

Are you still here? Are you making another post while I make this one. I thought I got here first this morning and wanted to leave you a note about this post and stuff that went on at Charis's and CBE but after I signed in, I saw your post.

Anyway, I've been thinking. (Dangerous, I know, but what are you gonna do? ;) )
You know, I had a mother-in-law who was a beautiful person, a free-spirited one, who was also a little prickly and hard to love. When I tried to love her the way I loved my own mother who is very gracious and quite a different person, my love fell short. To make a long story short, I had to let the love I had for my mother-in-law die because it was based on a false understanding of her. But once I let it die, I started from scratch, really getting to know her, what made her tick, what she liked, what she hated, etc.
When I did this, we became so close that one observer compared us to Ruth and Naomi. And one of her own sons (she had 6) came to me and asked me for advice on how to have a relationship with her. (my advice was to stop putting her in the box of his expectations and start getting to know who she really was).

Anyway, I say all this because perhaps you need to let the 'love' you have for God, based on faulty understanding of Him to just die so you can start all over from scratch and let Him show you who He really is and how He really loves you.

I thought about your thoughts on Romance being based on a Roman lens and thought maybe you could buy a Disney Pricess coloring book and/or a religious book on doctrine. Burn them. Then scatter their ashes to the wind as an outward demonstration of an internal rejection of the worldly/religous view of God.

And once doing this, open your heart for God to fill it with the WAY, TRUTH, and LIFE of who He is. He wants to betrothe you to Himself in truth, justice, lovingkindness, as defined by HIM, not as defined by corrupt theology.

It's a thought.
If it's helpful, go for it.
If it doesn't fit or you think it's inappropriate, disregard this.

JaneDoeThreads said...

Hi, I'm back for a bit, working and staying offline a bit, forcing myself actually--anyway,

"I thought about your thoughts on Romance being based on a Roman lens and thought maybe you could buy a Disney Pricess coloring book and/or a religious book on doctrine. Burn them...."

ROFL, you know, I kind of did that already, LOL, though for a different reason--when I was attempting to 'submit' to this housewife and die to college knowledge, LOL, yea, this past summer, I got so angry, I took some books and tore them to shreds, which for me is sacri-religious and all, being an academic, and I picked out two romance books that we had gotten out of dumpster that I had put on top shelf because one of my parrots likes to eat my books, lol. I don't read romance, so I picked those two, and a few other books--funny I forgot about that.

But you are right, that is what I am doing, starting from scratch--well, sort of, I did learn a lot this summer but one thing I do have to do is stay away from Charis's blog for a while, its too triggering, for me right now due to my situ, and I am working to get out from under my situation, God willing. And the same goes for the CBE blog for a while, this is something that has been bugging me for some time but I kept going to look/read, what I was looking for I don't know, maybe a place to rage???? But for now I'm taking a leave of them, just for now--and just staying with reading this blog and some others that are healing for me, including the one God led me to yesterday, which was just too weird how That happened, found it by accident on a blog I hardly ever read. Anyway I've been escaping a bit too much on blogs of late--to not have to hear my own thoughts, what I meant about the isolation...since coming to God the thoughts drive me up the wall--and then dealing with my daughter's rebellion [I'll be so glad when she moves, and my husband's mouth has so much to do with her rage and his enabling of her bad attitudes/drugs, etc...long story, it was one of his ways of keeping his control, undermining me [she isn't his daughter], it's one big mess/complicated-and he does his dirty work with such charm, that's the really difficult part. Its all manipulation though--like living with an alcoholic--and I'm having to 'get well' myself, you know, you learn sick ways to cope--to living with insanity.

I'm sure you know a bit about what I mean, so well, anyway...don't get me wrong, I love her but she's almost 18 and well, arrrgh, hubby's immaturity is bad enough without her temper fits.

Well, ~sigh~ so I'm going back to the listening, not running away from the isolation--too much, why I don't know HOW I know--but I know for some reason, this is what God wants, at least for now. Slowly he's been removing 'crutches' for me--which is good, I'm getting back to working on my business which I NEED to be doing anyway, rather than avoiding.

Yea, from scratch-a lot of things, need to be burned and let go, a lot of chaff, just needs to go, and I'm ready to let it go.


shadowspring said...

Wow! My own teenage daughters rebellion was a way my husband vicariously poured out his contempt on me for years. I didn't know anyone else went through that. ((JaneDoeThreads))

Over the past year, all of that has turned around in my life because my husband finally was confronted by a man of God about his abusive ways. My husband was very passive-aggressive in his abuse, and he blamed all of our strife on my responding in pain and anger to all the hatred that he was initiating in our lives!

I totally believe that you are in an abusive situation, but I also believe that it is possible for God to turn it all around IF your husband is willing to accept that its his doing. Joel and Kathy Davisson do a good job of cutting through the bs at their Marriage Intensives.

Coming out of denial is not a cure-all, but it is a much needed start.

Actually my husband got worse at times after the Marriage Intensive, as his whole world was being rocked big time. But at least he was taking responsibility afterwards, and when he saw that just coming out of denial wasn't enough, he sought real help.

First he went to a domestic violence trained counselor, who turned out pretty useless. (By the way, my husband was physically initmidating only in the past year, only one did he put his hands on me, but he was abusive for many years in other ways.) Then in desperation I checked out Life Skills Intl online and found they sponsored a program near us.

Now my husband is in a 26 week program sponsored through Life Skills Intl by Paul Hegstrom (google for more info). He is far less abusive and less frequently abusive. He is happily on the road to recovery and his walk with God is more joyful than it has ever been.

Once my husband started to get it together, my daughter was freed up to stop doing his hating for him. She began to get some much needed healing for her own life. She no longer hates me, in fact we are good friends now.

I hope my story gives you affirmation, that you are heard and understood. It hurts to be hated by the people you love. :(

I hope my story gives you some leads in some places that might prove helpful. They are no magic cure alls but offer much needed support and opportunity for change. You will be believed at these ministries.

And I hope my story gives you hope that things can change.

They are changing for the better in my little world.

JaneDoeThreads said...

Thank you for the understanding and sharing Shadowspring.

You too Mara. After some hard facing truth and dumping the Idealism and Uptopic Religion,

I will be working towards financial freedom and filing a Divorce. He's not saved by the way, and as far as I'm concerned, if God is so big, God can save him without me further martyring myself and esp my children...

it will take Years of therapy to Undo the damage already done and I will no longer contribute to their neglect and abuse by this insane submission misogynist religious garbage.

My mind is made up on that, if there Is a God, who isn't a misogynist--or a male or who favors males, well,

I guess He better work fast, LOL, because I'm done with the years of self destruction and self hate--and all the ways those beliefs have literally destroyed so much of my life and my self. Years I'll never get back, and 12 years of my kid's life,

I'm only sorry, that my 'religious' sickness--hurt them. My goal now,

is to remedy that.


shadowspring said...

((JaneDoeThreads)) Do what you need to do to find healing for yourself and your children.

Mara Reid said...

Jane, you do whatever you need to do to find wholeness.

When married to a brain or personality disorder, sometimes divorce is the only thing a person can do.

Married to my ADHD man, I've had to consider divorce on and off.

Difference with ADHD and NPD though is that an ADHDer does have a heart under all that ADHD somewhere. You just can always find it.
With NPD it's not there to find it.

Take care

shadowspring said...

Of the five couples that went to the Marriage Intensive with us, I am only still in touch with three.

Of those three couples, my husband is doing the most healing. Yay for me, and for him. His fundamentalist upbringing hurt him in many ways, and I am very happy for him to be leaving those false ideas of God behind for the truth!

Another couple is separated (post Intensive) and healing, but the husband seems to have drawn a line that has stalled their progress. Unfortunately, any line short of total commitment to love is not enough. They will be divorced in a year if he isn't willing to be "all in".

The third couple will definitely divorce. They were separated before the Intensive, and still are.

This husband has full-blown NPD (in my non-professional but experiential opinion, having an undiagnosed NPD parent). He is "doing" all the things my husband is "doing" but it is only fuel for his continued abuse of his wife. I do not believe he will ever stop abusing his wife. He is a master manipulator and even convinced the Davissons (who know better!) that his wife was an exception to their books analysis of why crappy Christian marriages are crappy.

I don't want to paint too rosy a picture. You should know the whole truth.

Horrible Christian doctrine concerning marriage has been blocking the way to real healing for hurting marriages. It has been used to excuse hatred, selfishness and every evil work on the part of men, and used to lower women's expectations and teach them falsely that to submit to a self-centered person will magically change them into a loving person, when the opposite is true!

Submitting to a selfish person encourages them to continue to be selfish. Duh. Why did it take me so long to figure it out?

So anyway, while I do want to be a voice for encouragement to those in crappy Christian marriages, I don't want to be a source of shame to anyone whose marriage can't and shouldn't be "saved".

Please don't stay in an abusive marriage, my sisters!

If your husband is willing to humble himself like a little child; willing to chuck every wrong idea the church has taught him and examine Scripture with new eyes of humility and love; then the crappiest most abusive marriage can be saved.

But no amount of "submission" on a woman's part can bring that about! In fact, the best thing a woman can do to help facilitate changes is STOP TAKING THE CRAP!

This forces your husband to choose: stay proud and lose your family, or humble yourself before the Lord completely and be willing to change and MAYBE your marriage can be saved.

Just wanted to clarify. =)

JaneDoeThreads said...

I have a lot of things to work out with Jesus, we had long talk last night--

so much has come to a breaking point, and I want Truth. Real, you know,

and I promised Him last night I would stop posting on blogs [other than mine] for while, and get Alone with Him, there are three books He gave me this summer and I'm to read them and work through some things with Him--to get to know HIM,

to come to HIM with all these questions I have and to Wait for answers, from Him...He said,

I need to build my Faith, because I do not have a shield of Faith if I don't have Faith, and I am not able to quench the darts of the enemy because of all my doubts.

And its causing me to lash out at Him...

so, and I'm not to do anything impulsive or rash--but to sit still and Learn from Him...He made if Very clear and He gave me confirmation through the Holy Spirit,

in a way that I know for SURE it was HIM.

I fought this because I thought, no, the devil wants me isolated--but, there is only one way to KNOW God,

and that is to WALK through the desert--and get to know GOD, to really KNOW GOD. And well,

that's what He's been trying to do and I avoid--run away, He says I can't hear HIM because I am too busy clouding out His voice to avoid painful things, and one of the books He gave me this summer [my husband, a non-believer, found three books on top of a trashcan this summer when I was going through a very DARK time and they were all Christian this was after I had three praying mantis come to me, two at church, and people around me knew it was a sign, these mantis's were HUGE, and another on top of my head before church--some other 'para' things happened to me this summer, along with numerous dreams, so, anyway one of the books was 'How to Help your Children Handle Stress',

I thought it was for my children-but He told me last night to read it, I didn't want too, He said, no Read it, and as soon as I did--I saw, how much FEAR I have, due to the abuse...

and well--it begins from there. He said until I will let Him deal with all those things, my lens of Him will be distorted and I will never obey Him because I refuse to allow the Holy Spirit control because of my mother's abusive control.

I have 'doubts' [I always have doubts] but I have to try, you know,

the old wheel keeps going round and round and maybe its time to get off of it, it can't Hurt, guess better to do it than to sweep it under rug, etc., to just 'get over it' which is what I've done for years...

thinking it was just a 'pity party' but He said, that's the problem, I think all love is just pity, due to the abuse.

I don't know, its foreign territory for me, Very foreign--I tend to think its maybe a little Crazy,

defies logic,

but, well, guess we'll see.

So, I'll read here Mara, and shut my mouth [for now, He says I need to shut up and listen to Him]

so, that's what I'll be doing.

Love you and know that...


[please let CBE know this, I'm to stop lashing, and start hearing Him, to really Hear Him, to get these questions resolved--and I did promise Him, I would.]

JaneDoeThreads said...

Wow, another confirmation--ok so it IS God,

lol, was telling Waneta about the iniquity from child abuse and how I'm having to relearn--

something you said too Mara that God brought back to me, about something being 'broken' in me--

anyway, so I'm sharing a tiny bit about the harms of inquity to her post on generational abuse,

and it dawns on me, God is removing the STRONGHOLDS,

that's what it is, STRONGHOLDS,

like, wow, I love it when He does that, the whole Lightbulb thing going off--



it really IS like a lightbulb, how the Holy Spirit works like that.

OK, gotta run, btw, Mara, I am sorry for being so hard lately--God got onto me about that too. Your labor of love has NOT been in vain, just know that

love, Jane

Mara Reid said...

Jane. You know me.
I've been through your anger before. I don't take offense because I know you'll come around. You always do. You have a lot of anger to work through and you may not be done yet. You just get better at dealing with it all the time. I see the difference from your out bursts now compare to what they were. Yes, the time will come when there will be no more out bursts. You'll still deal with anger because this world can be utterly maddening. But you will have the strength and that shield of faith to deal with it.

Philippians 1:6 For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perform it until the day of Christ Jesus.

I am confident!

JaneDoeThreads said...

I just wanted to tell Shadowspring that I did reply to her on my blog...a little late, I just am going through some serious look at my self-life reality/honesty checks right now, so didnt' mean to not respond sooner, I've not been writing well on my blog of late. Just wanted to relay that,

Peace and Love,