I guarantee that Wayne Grudem is shorter than I am.
No man over 5'10" would work so hard to make God a submitting helper in order to enforce the idea that a helper always submits because the woman in Genesis is referred to as a helper. Since women are made as full time helpers and submitters, Grudem would rather make God a submitter to whom He's helping than back one inch off the little "Womanhood" structure he is determined to build for us gals. Read it if you can. Once you get past the puking sensation in the back of your throat, his faulty logic loop de loops are quite entertaining.
http://books.google.com/books?id=NHPxcYNV0BwC&pg=PA104&lpg=PA104&dq=Wayne+Grudem+God+submits+to+us+when+he+helps+us&source=bl&ots=ysQ-qlbAA9&sig=Ztbjkom1VNczhT_xib7hir9P0Ak&hl=en&ei=URCiTeHpFNCgtweuxNGMAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBcQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
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2 comments:
'Feminists seem to be reasoning that, because some subordination is degrading, all subordination must necessarily be degrading.'
The problem with his direction, and logic - and those that follow his lead?
They seem to have an issue with pointing out numerous examples of when their claim to fame of 'As the head, the husband has the primary responsibility to lead their partnership in a God-glorifying direction' because of the deprived nature of man it doesn't always end up so 'God Glorifying'.
History shows that the head wanted to hold on to a positions that should be shared by humankind, and abused his position to make sure he could keep it.
The mention the abuse of their 'role' as almost a side note, and strong emphasis that they have permission to have this role from God shows to wounded people pride and arrogance.
In other words, we are elite class and you have no power to take from us. That is what they are doing whether they wish to admit it or not.
You can't deny history, and claim your role at the same time they way they do - and NOT look arrogant. Common sense?!
If we look at history, and the strides and freedoms that were handed to the help meet - these strides were NOT given to woman in a Godly way. They were outright refused by the head, and the woman of the past had to fight tooth and nail to get it.
Does history show that 'all men are bad' or 'all submission is bad'? No. It shows that some men seem to look at this concept of 'submission' in an unhealthy way - one of power and not service.
They don't blame those men that have this unhealthy vision - but the feminists that point it out.
It calls into question their 'logic and common sense' that flows afterwards - as the phase they love to coin.
Heck they even blame the feminists for the sins of men of the past. They have a history of NOT allowing their help meet healthy, fruitful, and common sense traits. Rights or whatever they wish to label them.
When its a dirty word for women - it should be dirty word for men as well. That would be 'common sense' they lack, and yet refuse to see it.
Thankfully, we have men in this world that know what true service to mankind means. They don't have an issue with acknowledging the past, and make sure they don't deny or live the mistakes. Like MOST of mankind - they learned from the past or history.
Little men can't do that. They are to busy whining about how women complain to much about the past. They can't leave it alone. They had groups of women that keep reminding everyone. God gave me this role, and she can't have it. remember the bible says that you women was to 'rule over us'.
Sadly, instead of blaming feminists? The need to look at the differences between my last two paragraphs. One shows the Godly nature, and one represents the little boy inside of a little man.
We can't be responsible for the what people have done in the past. What we can do is learn from it.
Hannah: "When its a dirty word for women - it should be dirty word for men as well. That would be 'common sense' they lack, and yet refuse to see it."
Do I detect a hint of, "If it's good for the goose, It's good for the gander?"
I think the thing for me is this, the harder they fight and squirm and kick and scream to keep their elite positions in the synogogues, er, I mean churches, the more ridiculous they look, as you said. People can see that the twisted logic they keep offering has nothing to do with common sense, common decency, justice, fairness, or anything slightly resembling the two greatest commandments, the golden rule, or much of anything written in red in the gospels.
They need to get back to the gospel and stop trying to worship two masters, God and manhood.
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