Bumping an Old, Lost Post Up

 Actually, I'm not going to bump it up. I'm just going to link to it somewhere below.

I wrote this post back towards the end of 2010 because I was caught between two women with very strong opinions that seemed to contradict.

Since I valued the temporary internet friendship of both women at the time, I felt the deep need to reconcile the two opinions and make a bridge between them. They both commented and seemed to appreciate the clarification my post brought.

It is concerning whether forgiving an oppressor is a biblical response or a fawning response (Of the Fight, Flight, Freeze, or Fawn Trauma Response).

I came to the conclusion that actual, biblical forgiveness best comes from a place of Strength and Safety, hence the title of the post:

Strength and Safety.

Two Links for Today

 First, Keith Gregoire defending his wife, Sheila, again. Because Sheila doesn't hold up male supremacy as God's divine order 'clearly' laid out in the Bible, she is being accused of not being 'biblical'.

Being Biblical Means Loving the Whole Bible, Not Just Pet Verses.

You go, Keith. I always love it when you contribute to Sheila's blog. This time you were able to logically expose the hypocrisy of those accusing Sheila.

And this from Baptist Global New:

Why Women Talking has women talking and complementarian men fuming

Apparently, male headship is way more important than women talking and working together to deliver themselves from abuse and injustice. At least one dude from The Gospel Coalition thought this so strongly he felt the need to write about it.

Edited 2/18/23 to add this link:

An Ex-Bible Counselor Responds to Christianity Today

It's another good Read.

Edited 2/22/23 to add this one.

Mark Driscoll's Demand for Loyalty Divides Daughter-in-Laws Family

Just wanted to be able to find this one later.

Money, Power, and Sex

I heard a famous old time preacher back in the day say that it was Gold. Glory, or Girls (or any combination) that makes Pastors, Evangelists, and other Christian leaders fall. This preacher died in 1996. If only he could see things now he would be completely heart-broken over all the corruption in the denominations and mega churches today. More on this after a bit.

My guilty pleasure the last few months is watching "Escaping Polygamy" on YouTube. And the series is exactly what is says it is. It is a reality show starring young ladies who have escaped the Kingston Clan in the Salt Lake Valley who are helping others from that Clan and the FLDS who want to escape.

In the opening credits, one of the girls says, "They think it's about religion but it's not. It's about sex." Also in the credits it is noted that the Kingston Clan, or the Order, rules by fear and intimidation. In one of the episodes I watched recently, it was noted that the Order loves money way more than its own people. Sounding a little bit like Girls, Gold, Glory?

Back in 2011, I used to compare Warren Jeffs, the prophet of the FLDS, with John Piper. Warren Jeffs was all about "Keeping Sweet". That is the way he wants his people to behave, especially his women. They are not allowed their own emotions. In comparison John Piper is concerned with how women respond to men, even in the face of abuse. Their response must be sweet and submissive.

As I work my way through the "Escaping Polygamy" series, I am again reminded of how the FLDS and the Kingston Clan have taken the Money, Power, and Sex religion to dizzying levels.

But the Catholic Church, The Southern Baptist Church, and scores of Mega Church pastors have also been worshiping at the Money, Power, Sex Altar. They are sliding down the same slippery slope that the FLDS and Kingstons are on. It is no longer about Jesus and healing the broken hearted. It's about building the kingdoms of men on the sand of greed and narcissism.

Some years back I wrote a series entitled Sex, Drugs, and Mark Driscoll [Part 1, Part 2, Part 3, Part 4], and I discussed how Driscoll's Rock Star Preacher status helped him to get away with stuff your average guy cannot. I'm adding today that Driscoll's Rock Star Preacher status helped him to get away with things the average Narcissist couldn't get away with. This is bad for both the church and the Narcissist.

So, yes, that old time pastor from back in the day, who was concerned about Gold, Glory, and Girls taking preachers down would be shocked to see that nowadays Money, Power, and Sex are all just in a days work for many of these Rock Star/Celebrity Preachers.

Now I'm going to state the obvious.

This needs to stop.

Brothers In Love

 Back in the day my mother used to belong to a sorority that was good about helping women get ahead in a man's world through scholarships and grants for a better education.

Along side this sorority was a group formed by some of their husbands call BIL, an acronym for Brothers In Love. And these fellows would get involved in projects to further this sorority's goal.

Today I read a post on Bare Marriage by Keith Gregoire concerning the accusations against his wife and company that Bare Marriage in it's various forms (Blog, Podcast, Facebook, Twitter etc.) engages in man-bashing. As always, he does an eloquent job dismantling these false accusations against Bare Marriage activity in his post Is Holding Men to a High Standard Man-Bashing?

Normally, I might just comment my appreciation for his words. But today, I felt like saying more.

Keith, his son-in-law, and the various male commenters and contributors, even some of the struggling but honest men are BILs to me. And I want to look at some scripture to talk about this.

[Disclaimer: The scripture I am pulling from is The Song of Solomon. I understand that many take this book of the Bible to be exclusively about sex between a husband and wife. While I understand that this is true about The Songs, I also believe in a more nuanced and even at times, allegorical take. And there is a long tradition of others looking at it this way. Some have gone way too far making an allegorical application ridiculous. And some have determined that it is never about sex, which I don't agree with. So those of you who can only see The Songs as sexual, this post may not be for you. But my personal testimony involves meditating on The Songs in order to get healing while still in a bad marriage.]

Songs 1:5“I am black and beautiful,

You daughters of Jerusalem,
Like the tents of Kedar,

Songs 1:6 Do not stare at me because I am [f]dark,

For the sun has tanned me.
My mother’s sons were angry with me;
They made me caretaker of the vineyards,
But I have not taken care of my own vineyard.

In verse 6, the beloved refers to her brothers as being angry with her and implies that they were oppressive towards her, holding her responsible for their vineyards, or someone's vineyard that was not her own to the neglect of her vineyard. This is what Evangelical men have done with their books, like "Love and Respect" and the "Every Man's Battle" series. These authors hold women responsible for the sins of men.

These Evangelical authors are not BILs. They are something else. Are they Angry Little Men Oppressing Sisters Totally maybe? Or ALMOST men? (I'll bet someone else could come up with a better acronym. This was the best I could do in the here and now.)

An over reaching theme in The Songs is about the Lover taking the beloved from being an oppressed daughter of a nobleman (or prince depending on translation) who wasn't even allowed to take care of her own business and setting her up as Queen and manager of her own vineyard.

Songs 8:12 My very own vineyard is [d]at my disposal;

The thousand shekels are for you, Solomon,
And two hundred are for those who take care of its fruit.”

Allegorically, in personal meditations, I have viewed the results in this verse as being made possible by the Lover of my Soul. Jesus.

But, I now consider all our BILs to be men of integrity that are working along side women to stop the oppression of women by false teachers. These false teachers are not true brothers and have worked very hard to lay up heavy burdens upon the backs of wives in marriage. And they don't feel the need to lift a finger to help. That would make them Pharisees or ALMOST men. (Really. Someone is welcome to come up with something better.)

As a closing thought, I am thinking of an old song that went around Christendom back in the day.

"They will know we are Christians by our love."

But according to the ALMOST men, the song might go, "They will know I'm a Christian husband by how much sex, and all the different kinds of sex I can get from my wife." (I'm looking at you, Driscoll, you Bible manipulator and leader of ALMOST men.)

I love and appreciate all our BILs at Bare Marriage. Thanks Keith for contributing to the blog.

Mark Driscoll Is So Disqualified

 He is disqualified on so many levels as a pastor, teacher, and preacher.

Yet people still support him and give him a platform. I  personally know people who think that Driscoll has repented because he is so good at spinning, spinning, spinning, and making a 'reality' that he likes rather than to deal with actual reality, with what really happened.

I have a tendency to focus on his terrible misuse of the Bible and especially The Songs as tools to further his fleshly agenda. He is busy at work building his personal earthly kingdom. Unfortunately his new fiefdom has little to do with God's Kingdom. I'm planning on reposting some things concerning this in the future, including a guest post by my blogging friend, Wenatchee the Hatchet on this particular topic. More on him later.

But for now it is good for me to remember that there is so much evidence in other areas that exposes Driscoll's woeful lack of character. There is much evidence on his failure to fulfill the requirements for the office of a pastor as lined out in the Pastoral Epistles.

There is a reason that I include Wenatchee The Hatchet in my reading concerning Driscoll. He actually attended Mars Hill in Seattle. Plus he has training in journalism so is good at research and delivery of facts. When he talks about Driscoll and the history of Mars Hill, I have never been sorry for it paying attention.

Recently, Wenatchee the Hatchet has brought up a great point that I want to link to. He has addressed an excerpt from a 2021 book, "Pray Like Jesus" written by Driscoll that completely reframes what happened back in Seattle. Wenatchee the Hatchet holds it up next to other evidence from that time including Driscoll's own words. It is a long read, but a good read for anyone who cares about actual reality vs Driscoll's self-serving spin.

an apparent account of Mark Driscoll's resignation from Mars Hill from the 2021 book Pray Like Jesus, juxtaposed with prior accounts and Sutton Turner's published notes from the 2014 investigation of Mark Driscoll

As an add on to this post, I'd like to direct your attention to a Julie Roys podcast: Escaping & Healing From Abusive Churches Part 2

Here she interviews a man who spent time in an abusive church in Oregon.

Part 1 is also good. But part 2 gets more into the difference between abusive leaders that are held up as 'good' pastors, teachers, or preachers verses a person with an actual pastor's heart.

Much of modern Christianity, and especially modern Evangelicalism, has lost its way. They want the shiny and charismatic men, the ones that entertain them and make them feel certain ways. They don't realize that these shiny men have shady characters and off-balanced teachings that often oppose the teachings of Jesus.

Good Old Links

 These are old links from 2012 and 2014 from a blog called Practical Theology for Women.

I greatly respect the author, a confirmed Complementarian for many reasons.

I pay attention to her words concerning Mark Driscoll and Mars Hill because she used to be a member of that church and has good insight on the situation.

In the first link from 2012, she and her husband reviewed Mark Driscoll's book "Real Marriage" and did an amazing job.

Review of Real Marriage by Mark and Grace Driscoll

The second link is from 2014 and talks about some of the damage that Mark Driscoll's teaching on sex has done to people.

The Harmful Teaching of Wives as Their Husband's Porn Stars

I'm bringing these two links forward so they can be referred to when combatting, comparing, and contrasting the new sex teaching book that Driscoll is now promoting.

Driscoll Trying to Define Reality

 Mark has two books already out that contain the word "Real". They are "Real Marriage" and "Real Faith"

He has a third one coming out on February 14 called "Real Romance".

Apparently he believes himself to be an expert on what is real as opposed to everything else. "Real Romance" is based on The Song of Songs, something that he believes he is an authority on.

But there is a huge problem with Driscoll. He is not a Bible teacher. He does not rightly divide the Word of Truth. Rather he is a brilliant propogandist who can twist the Bible into whatever shape he wants in order to make it say whatever he wants it to say.

We have seen this before with The Songs. One of his most infamous sermons was in Edinberg, Scotland where he gave a message on the "Good Bits" of The Songs. The sermon and some commentary about it is preserved here:

Reflecting on a Controversial Sermon...

Driscoll skips all the parts about the egalitarian relationship between the lover and the beloved and instead zeroes in on a few poetic things and makes great assumptions about what they mean. And then, turns those assumptions into commands for women to perform.

This is the reality that Driscoll has been trying to create. One where women are commanded to do all the sex acts, where the husband/idol has the right to demand whatever appendage or orifice he wants, and where the wife is to never tell her husband no. He has taken coercion and the obligation sex message to new abusive and oppressive lows.

He has never repented from his sin against women as described by Kyle J Howard in this YouTube video.

And I have no confidence that he will not carry this sin over into his new book promoting what he wants sex to be for himself and everyone else.

So I'm declaring here and now that Driscoll doesn't have a clue concerning real romance. Nor does he really understand The Songs. He only knows how he wants things to be. And the way he wants it is abusive and oppressive to women.

Oh, by the way, Grace Driscoll is cited as co-author of this book. But I don't take what she has to say seriously. Because as a Narcissistic Enabler, she reflects back to Mark what he wants to see. It is a survival tactic on her end. She should have dealt with Mark's sin against her and the women of their church long ago. But she hasn't and I am not waiting for her to change anytime soon. She's pretty beaten down. [See Dear Grace Driscoll, a guest post open letter from back in the day.]

So, while I don't take Grace seriously as co-author of Mark's book about the pornified way Mark wants sex to be, I do take Grace seriously as a master performer to help keep Mark's propaganda machine going.

In fact, I want to dedicate a song to her called Dance Monkey because she dances the dance Mark demands. And she is the perfect Sex Monkey for Mark's Real Porn/Fake Romance Life.

Mark really likes Sex Monkeys and thinks that all men should have their own Sex Monkey. That is what he has preached in the past. And I don't expect this new book to be any different.

Driscoll is Selling Sex Again

 yay. he's at it again. whoop, whoop.

(Huge eyerolling emoji here)

Here's a link to the story about it: Mark Driscoll Says He Wants to 'Heat Up Your Marriage"

One of the things that really helped Driscoll build his kingdom on sand in Seattle was his Peasant Princess series back in the day.

Discovering his warped and perverted view of the Songs is what put him on my radar in 2009. And not in a good way.

His series definitely put him on the map and made him a lot of money. Just like Hugh Hefner made a lot money off of Sex.

The fact the Driscoll exists is sad. What is worse is all the people who can't see through what he's doing and who support him.

People would be much better off supporting legitimate ministries that actually help people like Sheila Gregoire's Bare Marriage blog and podcast.

Edited to add The Wartburg Watch's post that includes info on Driscoll wanting to make money off sex again:

"... While Mark Driscoll Remembers that Sex Sells"

Biblical Womanhood

 This post is inspired by today's post at Bare Marriage.

They are sharing their Biblical Womanhood Merch and giving Bible references to where these stories are found. So many women don't know the stories of Bible Women because those Bible Women mess up the doctrine of Biblical Womanhood that Piper and like want to peddle.

Bare Marriage lists a bunch of important Bible Women like Pricilla, Deborah, Huldah and Esther and point out where their stories are. And I appreciate them doing so today. In addition, I think I might buy some of their Biblical Womanhood mugs to give to friends.

Anyway, another Biblical Woman or Biblical Womanhood Ideal that I like is the Proverbs woman. Teachings on this portion of scripture has been mishandled by men who fear her. Instead of recognizing that she was a business owner/landowner/farmer/entrepreneur/philanthropist etc. these male teachers reduce the chapter about her down to making sure she keeps her house clean and cares for her children. Or, they use the chapter to shame women for not measuring up to their definitions of a few particulars mentioned.

I once heard a preacher on the radio going through Proverbs 31 and every time he dealt with a verse concerning how strong, independent, and capable this woman was, he had to add something like, now don't forget, she was submitted to her husband like instructed in Ephesians 5.

After a few minutes of him making sure the women in his congregation knew how important submitting to their husbands' was per Eph. 5, I finally said out loud. "Now I'm confused. Are you preaching on Proverbs 31 or on Ephesians 5? Because it seems to me, that you are way more concerned about Eph. 5 than anything God has to say about women in the Proverbs."

Looking back on that day, I've come to the conclusion that the preacher was afraid of the powerful image of the Proverbs Woman. And out of fear that the women in his congregation might get all uppity, he had to beat them back down with Eph. 5.

So, as I consider going to the website to buy those Biblical Womanhood mugs for friends and family, I also think to myself, "Be Powerful like the Proverbs Woman."

Thoughts from Byrd Concerning Listening

 Was lurking over at The Wartburg Watch and found a tweet leading to Aimee Byrd's December 4th post on Why Complementarians Can't Listen.

It's a good read. It makes reference to the grain of wheat that has to die and be buried in order to produce fruit and that Complementarianism won't allow that because Men are the boss and don't have to die to their arrogance and sense of superiority. So this makes listening to their subordinate women unnecessary or impossible.

The Bible is full of such parables and references pointing out that hierarchy between believers is not to be part of the Kingdom of God.

One of my favorite ones is concerning the rich being like camel going through the eye of a needle. This is, of course, in reference to a gate in the city wall called the needle. A man could walk through it, from what I'm told. But a camel would have to have all it's packs taken off its back and have to crawl on it's knees to get through.

Most understand this as a rich man can't take his riches in to heaven, which is true. But I wonder how many understand that this also includes entitled men who think they should be the boss of others. You can't take your entitlement and desire to be the boss into the Kingdom of Heaven.

Sure, men have made many religious structures where they get to be the boss of others and stamp "God approves of this message/dynamic" on it and call it gospel. But they really aren't representing the Kingdom of God. Nor are they truly being leaders in God's Kingdom. They are just playing at the game of "who gets to be the boss of whom" and thinking they are doing church right, when it is so wrong. Jesus said that it was not to be like this among His followers. He said that this is what the gentiles seek after.

So, I agree with Aimee. Complementarians can't listen to women. Because their very structure props up false hierarchies and gives entitled men free reign to abuse and lord over God's sheep.

Broken Love

 The goings on over at the Bare Marriage blog has got me thinking.

This month they are talking about how to repair sex in a marriage that has been broken by the horrible teachings of the big name Evangelicals. And, as expected, they are getting push back.

And, of course, there is a commenter that is wanting to accuse Sheila of  'not displaying the fruit of the Spirit'. The thread can be found here:

Christians Need a Better Understanding of Consent

Quote from FE's comment at 11/18/22 at 2:28 pm:

"This is a site that whispers in the ears of women and feeds discontent, hatred and sows the opposite of the fruit of the spirit. You flunk your own tests for the fruit of the Spirit, for safety and for doing no harm."

I will refer back to FE's quote later.

As I continue to work through the damage done to me through a decades long marriage to a low level Narcissist, part of my spiritual healing routine is meditation on The Song of Songs.

I understand that my take on The Songs is not everyone's cup of tea. But my testimony is my own and if it can help others, then I will share a bit of it here and there where it seems right to do so.

Long story short, I started meditation on the Songs back in 1998 while only ten years into a thirty year marriage. I can't tell you how many times I've been through this book of divine poetry. Nor can I tell you how many times I have copied it, word for word, in notebooks to help with deeper meditation on it.

I started meditating on it before I ever knew what a narcissist was and it helped me to see the difference between a healthy love relationship and what I was experiencing. It also helped me understand the depth of God's love for me and that He was not in agreement with what was happening to me.

Anyway, back to present day.

I am now in the second chapter and a verse in it jumped out at me last week.

Songs 2:5 Refresh me with raisin cakes, sustain me with apples, Because I am lovesick.

In the past, this verse hasn't meant a whole lot to me. I took it at face value and accepted the first level, or surface meaning of it. Teenage angst over being infatuation with their love. And that is what I believe it means.

But as I was reading it last week, what jumped out at me was the word "lovesick". And while I am in no position to be lovesick in the teenage angsty, puppy love verse, there is still a sickness within me concerning love. Or, to better put it, my love, or ability to love has been broken. So in that sense, I am lovesick.

So as I was meditating on this brokenness within me, I also looked at the other words used in that verse, refresh and sustain. And this sent me down the path of meditation on the verses in the Bible about God restoring and healing us. There are many such verses. I will share one

Psalm 23:2 He lets me lie down in green pastures, He leads me beside still waters (3a) He restores my soul.

There were many things that broke my marriage. But one big one was his sense of entitlement to sex and the coercion that he regularly used to get it. And so much of the broken Evangelical teaching agreed with him. I didn't have Sheila whispering discontent and hatred in my ears back then as FE's comment suggests. But rather, I had The Songs as a measuring rod for the abuse that I was suffering.

I want to close this post with another verse from The Songs chapter two that flies in the face of the Evangelical obligation teaching. It is the groom speaking here:

Songs 2:7 “Swear to me, you daughters of Jerusalem, By the gazelles or by the does of the field, That you will not disturb or awaken my love until she pleases."

This is the right teaching concerning sex. It is when she pleases, when she is willing, and when she is in the position to enjoy it. She must feel safe and not coerced. And these words are repeated three more time throughout The Songs in chapters three, five, and eight! This was a very important part of the poetry. But the male teachers that teach on this book ignore this repeated refrain in favor of what they think are the best bits of the poem, the ones that can be used to coerce and shame women.

Sorry, FE. But you are on the wrong side of this argument. You have absorbed the poison from the false teachings of entitled male Evangelicals which is the opposite of the fruit of the Spirit.

5 Refresh me with raisi caksick.

Links Concerning The Songs

 Putting these here to refer to later.

Book suggestion for deeper understanding of The Songs A New Translation and Interpretation.

Britannica notes on The Songs.

I am a life long studier of the Songs for personal reasons.