TGC Echo Chamber

 Unless you live under a rock, you most likely have heard about the ridiculous goings on at The Gospel Coalition, the Keller Centre, and Multnomah Publishing.

If, indeed, someone comes here not knowing, I will link three places to go for more information

Bare Marriage had a good post with lots of links to other opinions: My V@gina Is Not My "Most Holy Place": A Response to the Gospel Coalition.

Under Much Grace comes in with an overview of the history that has led up to this crazy outcome: The Spermeneutics of Spread Your Legs Theology

And I'll add Biblical Personhood's for good measure simple because I miss her voice in the blogsphere as she doesn't publish as much as she used.to and she had such good insight. (Hi, Retha, I see you!): The Gospel Coalition seemingly Endorses Phallic Worship -- And Inadvertently Makes the Case for Women Elders.

Poor Joshua Butler. He really stepped into it, didn't he? And TGC?

This is what happens when a bunch of men refuse to acknowledge the wisdom and concerns of women for years on end. This is what happens when they keep talking to each other about things they don't fully understand. They get weirder and weirder with no wise feminine input or push back. They get emboldened in their error. And out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks.

Concerning the Proverbs Woman:

Proverbs 31:26 She opens her mouth in wisdom,

And the [q]teaching of kindness is on her tongue.

Too bad TGC and other Complementarianas fight so hard to shut women up and beat them down with twisted Bible verses. Too bad they judged women to be foolish and unwise. By doing this, they have shot themselves in the foot. They had told everyone that women are lesser parts of the Body of Christ. As a result women were ignored, used, abused and dismissed. And this has blown up in their faces.

Scapegoating and the Modern Molech

"Molech was an Ammonite deity who represented masculinity and the part that man played in reproduction to bring about life."

So says Cynthia Kunsman in her very good article about the worship of Masculinity in the Duggar version of Christianity.


Will Anna Duggar be offered as the next living sacrifice to save the Duggar family Brand? Scapegoating, Spread your Legs Theology, and the Modern Molech

Cynthia has done a good job of pointing out how far people will go to prop up their false version of the Gospel.

The Problem with Power

Kristen nails it in her post concerning promoting hierarchy in marriage in her post:

Male Headship and the Problem with Power.

Piper's Poem Problems

Yes, I read it. No, I couldn't get past the first scene in the video, though I may try again some other time. I was turned off by the fact that Calvinism is for a lot of young white men, a few older white men and then pretty much nobody else, including all women who, though they receive a title and mention of high praise, they really are nothing to the Calvinist but a parable. I'm a person. Not a parable.

That aside, two others have written on this self-absorbed and self-obsessed poem that put a lot more thought into what is really wrong with it than what I could get into. Hey, I'm tired of being marginalized by John Piper and his ilk. Analyzing his dismissive tone towards me and all women is not what I would call a good use of my time. But I don't mind reading other musings on Piper's pathetic pontifications, a poem that is an assault on both poetry and any doctrine not whoring after Calvinism.

Update: The Self-obsessed Calvinist

And

John Piper's WAMM Calvinist (White American Middle-class Male)

Another Attack on Womanhood...

Are you listening Ryan over at Wartburg Watch (see previous post).

This is actually an old one. But I'm bringing it to the forefront and reposting it so that Ryan can see that Womanhood is being attacked by the leaders of the Evangelical movement.

Tim Challies is a respected leader among his subgroup of Evangelicals. And apparently he has seen something that he doesn't like. And in order to fight it, he has polarized it into gender forms, making the masculine good, strong, and right and what he doesn't like as effeminate (weak and accepting of wrong).

His polarizing and defining, making masculine good and feminine evil is another example of the war on womanhood being carried out everyday by those who are defending manhood from perceived attackers.

Still, I don't see a war on Manhood in any of this. But I do see a lot of men claiming that there is a war on it. These men get on the offensive and start attacking whoever they think they should blame, namely the feminine (again, like Adam blaming Eve) when really, it is a manufactured and propaganda propelled war.

Here is the old post reprinted out, complete with links to Challies and places that refute what he's saying. I originally wrote this post back in the days before I understood how to work the blogger linky thingy. Back then I just cut and pasted the links 'as is' into the post.

(Note: I was a bit upset back in the day I wrote this. I'm still not happy with Challies and his conclusions, but I'm not nearly as angry today as I was then. But I'm not ashamed of my back then anger. There is a reason to be angry with this war that men have declared against the feminine. It is wrong.)

*****

Soft Effeminate Christianity. ROTFL!

I read this and all I could do was laugh.

The famous Tim Challies, who has caused a stir in the blog world by declaring that women cannot even read scripture out loud in the public assembly has decided to quote Horatius Bonar. In fact, he entitled and entire post "Soft, Effeminate Christianity" in order to quote Bonar. He says this about Bonar's quote that he reprints.

Tim Challies: "Bonar is warning against a kind of soft and, in his word, effeminate Christianity, that may come about when Christians are too afraid to fight for what is right and to protest against what is wrong."

http://www.challies.com/quotes/soft-effeminate-christianity

Why am I laughing at this?

Because of his hypocrisy and blatant hatred of the feminine. These pushers of gender roles force women down into a soft, submissive, subservient role THEN show hatred for such things in the church.

Well, let me tell you Tim Challies, who wants to turn women into little helpless lambs. Let me tell you this. You and your cohorts' relentless pursuit to dis-empower and bring into bondage, women, half or over half of the body of Christ... This pursuit is blowing up in you face.

More and more women are done with all the rules men keep making up for them.

I'll give you a few examples:

http://www.emergingmummy.com/2011/12/in-which-i-am-done-fighting-for-seat-at.html

http://rachelheldevans.com/daughters-will-prophesy

http://www.elizabethesther.com/2011/12/i-will-prophesy.html

http://thewartburgwatch.com/2011/11/04/tim-challies-deleting-both-scripture-and-hurting-people-a-request-from-sgm-refuge/

http://bwebaptistwomenforequality.wordpress.com/2011/12/13/industry-standards/

These are mother grizzlies and lionesses who are not afraid to fight for what is right and to protest against what is wrong. And your stance on women reading scripture in the public assembly and your support of C.J Mahaney are both dead wrong. These women are not afraid to declare it. They are very feminine. But they are strong and powerful, able to preach and teach men of their wrong. And yes, they are able to prophesy in the name of Jesus. No amount of Scripture twisting by you and others is able to take away from them the promise of Almighty God.

The real problem in all of this is your refusal to hear about the wrong that you commit against all of your sisters and many of your brothers.

Is 'Manhood' Under Attack?... Really?!

Nothing like beating a dead horse.

Except it's not really dead yet.

The Wartburg Watch had a post back in September entitled "Act Like Men-Are Driscoll/MacDonald Merchandising Manhood?"

That's a long time ago in blog years. So why is a certain fellow named 'Ryan' coming along and commenting on it yesterday,  on November 5th?

Why is he saying, "my sense is that manhood is under attack and virtually neutered from the modern mainline churches. Do you believe this is ok? God honoring?"

So Ryan feels attacked in his manhood, right?
And Ryan wants to know if I feel it's okay and God honoring for the mainline churches to attack his manhood.

Well, here it is. If manhood is truly being attacked, then, no, I don't feel it's okay or God honoring. The problem is, Ryan has offered no proof that this is going on. So I can't make a stand on this issue due to lack of proof.

Now, here is my question to Ryan.

Do you think it is right to, first of all, accuse everything you hate about certain worship services as being "effeminate" and then declaring that all these things are evil, thereby indirectly attacking the feminine and deciding that masculine rules while the feminine drools.

Well, this is what Doug Wilson does in his, "Your Worship Service Might Be Effeminate If..."

This is well responded to by Internet Monk in "Esau Christianity, Doug Wilson Needs a Bible Study." and Board's Head in "Mary vs Effeminacy"

Also, Wilson is quick to blame anyone that he's mad at as serving the b!tch goddess of (fill in the blank as pertaining to whatever he's ranting about). This misogynist behavior is observed by Wenatchee the Hatchet in his "Doug Wilson almost channel's Eric Cartman."

Now, granted, the Wartburg comment thread is talking about Driscoll and MacDonald so one may wonder what the heck Doug Wilson has to do with any of this. Well I'm going to provide a link to a video of John Piper praising Doug Wilson while Chandler and Driscoll fist bump behind him. In the video, John Piper states at the 58 second mark (while Driscoll agrees with laughter and fist bump):

"Doug Wilson is one of the most careful and bright, reform, post millennial, objectivist, theologians around... and he's got people around him that are dumb. (laughter... fist bump... more laughter)"

Link to youtube video John Piper on Doug Wilson

So this is what Piper has to say about Wilson. That Wilson is brilliant and everyone else is dumb. Yet, as WTH points out, Wilson almost channels Eric Cartman (South Park) in his hatred and attack on the feminine.

I have proved that the feminine is being attacked in Evangelical circles.

What does Ryan have to say about that?
Is there anyone attacking 'manhood' in mainline denominations as vicious as Wilson hates and attacks the feminine?
I doubt it.
But I'm willing to see any proof Ryan can provide.

Hero Mom

Move over Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

Found this link on Thatmom. And I agree with her. This is my kind of mom.

Dorothy Baker, Punches and Runs Over Man Who Threatened Her and Her Kids.

And why do I bring this up?

Because I am soooooooooo tired of the John Pipers and Mark Driscolls and Tim Challieses*** of the world who hold up their ridiculous ideals of womanhood as soft and weak. I get tired of these men who think women can't defend themselves and must always be defended by a man.

Well, what do you do if there is no man to defend you, and in fact, the one man in the whole story is the one threatening you and your children.

I guess you are just supposed to put tilt your head back, put the back of your hand to your forehead and say, "Woe is me. God made me a soft, weak, defenseless female. Therefore I must submit to the all-powerful male in every situation. After all, this is what my clueless, misogynic, neo-Calvinist preacher has taught me. He has declared unto me that this is God's intention, will, role, and purpose for my life. To deviate from it would be to sin against the essence of manhood and womanhood and by so doing, rebel against the Gospel. Did I say, 'Woe is me'?"

(Forgive the snark. Please understand that it is better for me to do this than to cuss clueless preachers out on what is supposed to be a Christian blog. But believe me, they deserve to be cussed out or snarked out when they teach the crap they do and call it the Word of God.)

(Tim Challies is author of the infamous "Soft, Effeminate Christianity" post I wrote against some time back.)

Men in (actual) Leadership Roles

I get so tired of hearing about how men are to lead and be the boss by men who are clueless about what that means. So, when I hear a man talk about what it actually takes to be a man in leadership, doing leadership right, it is a huge breath of fresh air.

Here is Jackson Katz telling it like it is:

Violence against women-It's a men's issue.

Jock Strap Religion, Part 2

I have a lot to say but not much time to say it.

I love the title of my friend, Hannah's, blog post concerning the SGM debacle and T4G and TGC's response to it. The title is "Together for Mahaney at the Southern Baptist Convention". And she goes into analysis of how these good ol' boys have each other's backs (and privates!).

I've just recently linked to two other blogs that also demonstrate what I call Jock Strap Religion (JSR). The one linked on Friday illustrates how the Pearls hold women responsible for everything, including the sins of men. The other one linked on Tuesday shows how oldest daughters are the ones exposed to abuse and mistreatment in order to protect the abusive system of patriarchy (the ultimate JSR).

Needless to say, seeing all this protection of 'holy' and 'superior' manhood and their sins at the expense of women and children, making women and children vulnerable and the ones taking the blows and bearing the abuse (rather than the men who should bear the consequences of their own sins) has just increased my distaste of man-made JSR. This is the kingdom that Mahaney, T4G, TGC, the Pearls, CBMW, and many others are building. A Jock Strap Kingdom where men, manhood, and manlike sins are protected and covered and where women and children are thrown under the bus to protect this kingdom and the 'privates' of men.

Jesus did the opposite of this. He held men accountable for their own sins and released women from bearing that burden:

Matthew 5:27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery’; 28 but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

He also called all into account for hurting His little, defenseless lambs.

Matthew 18:6 but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.

Jesus didn't come to earth to promote a JSR or build a Jock Strap Kingdom. This is the work of men who want to cover their own hinneys and fronties while walking all over the vulnerable. Jesus is the champion of the vulnerable. He does not wink at the sins of men. Just because Jesus walked the earth as a man doesn't mean He 'understands' the sins of men, makes allowances for those sins, and/or looks the other way.

John 8:3 The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman caught in adultery, and having set her in the center of the court, 4 they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women; what then do You say?” 6 They were saying this, testing Him, so that they might have grounds for accusing Him. But Jesus stooped down and with His finger wrote on the ground. 7 But when they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up, and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 Again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9 When they heard it, they began to go out one by one, beginning with the older ones, and He was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the center of the court. 10 Straightening up, Jesus said to her, “Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?” 11 She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no more.”]

For those who don't know. The above passage was not about Jesus 'going soft' on sin. It was Jesus confronting the unjust culture that stoned women for adultery while letting the men go free. Cause really, if she was caught in the very act... where was the guy? Oh, that's right, the other men covered and hid that man and his sin from Jesus. They were practicing JSR where they protect men and condemn women. JSR is a Pharisee concoction. It has no part in the Kingdom of God that Jesus was setting up.

This is the reason why I loved the title to Hannah's post. It gets to the heart of the matter. Together for the Gospel and The Gospel Coalition, and whoever else that is coming to Mahaney's defense... They are NOT together for the Gospel. At least NOT the one that Jesus preached. They are together to protect men and their sins. They are together to protect Mahaney, the pastors, and all the pedophiles hiding in SGM. They are together against the women and children who have been trampled on by these men, including Mahaney. They are together for their beloved and worshiped Jock Strap Religion.

In case you missed part 1 of the Jock Strap Religion, unofficial series.

When Women Lead and Men Hide

It is not my favorite thing to talk about. I really don't have it out for men. Anyone who has been with me for very long knows that I appreciate strong men and weak men make me nervous. But there is a difference of opinion on what makes a strong man between me and the Neo Reform leaders.
The leaders of the Neo Reform movement call strong weak and weak strong. When faced with very severe sin in the camp, they run and hide, circle the wagons, and say, "Move along. There is nothing to see here." This is not strength. It is weakness and displays flawed character.

I guess I'm still grateful for the women of the Neo Reformed movement who are not hiding but rather rising up, being strong, and leading the way where their men have failed.

Sallie over at "A woman's Freedom in Christ" is also grateful for women like Wendy who are leading the way where their men are failing... badly...

Sallie's Post: When women Lead the Way

Thanks Sallie! (I've added you to my blog list. I should have done it long ago. Better late than never, though, right?)

Neo-Reform Leaders Need to Man-Up

At least that is what one commenter said on the Wartburg Watch.

In fact I liked Dana's comment so well, I think I'll post it here. Hope Dana doesn't mind.

"The NeoRefomed leaders need to “man up” and follow Wendy since she is the first example of manly leadership from that camp. She said what needed to be said in exactly the right way with the right tone. I often thank God for Wendy Alsup. May she prosper and flourish and be strengthened in every way."

Comment found here Link.

The Wendy that Dana is referring to is one of the few Complementarians in my blog list. She writes at Practical Theology for women. She's on my list because she actually cares about justice, mercy, and faithfulness (Matthew 23:23)
Here is her post that needs more than 29 comments (at the time of this post):

The Elephant in Our Own Backyard

I agree with Dana. Wendy is the first example of manly leadership that we see from this camp. The men ignoring the tears of the abused children of SGM should be ashamed of themselves.

If there is any hope for the Neo-Reformed camp, it lies with their women. Too bad the best known leaders among them are working so damn hard to marginalize them and put them down and searching out scripture for new ways to lord over them.

'Christian' Doctrine and Systems That Promote Abuse

Someday I'm going to actually add Cindy's blog to my blog roll rather than just threaten about it. Her in depth look at and experience with the abusive doctrine of Complementarianism, Patriarchy, the Quiverful movement, and other such derelict systems is unparalleled.

If you can make the time, please read this.

Family Dogs Get Better Breaks than do Comp Wives: The Heart of Domestic Abuse in the Heart of the Complementarian Mindset.

How Many Strikes Does Piper Get?

I left this comment over at TWW. I'll link it at the bottom if you want to join the discussion over there and find out why I spelled bitter the way I did. But here it is if you are in a hurry.

You have heard of “3 strikes, you’re out”?

I think Piper is working on strike number, wait, I’ve lost count.

1. He loves Mark Driscoll’s theology. (this is a pretty big strike. in fact, “1 strike your out” kind of applies when it’s this big.

2. He doesn’t allow women to read scripture out loud in the assembly.

3. His contributions as editor and writer of that horrible piece of tripe “RECOVERING BIBLICAL MANHOOD AND WOMANHOOD.”

4. The stupid things he says concerning God’s sovereignty during times of disaster.

5. His abuse and over-use of flowery adjectives to make the b!tter pill of his b!tter gospel more swallowable to poor, unsuspecting souls. (hope it’s okay to use the word b!tter here.)

6. And now, to prove that he isn’t getting soft in his retirement years, he’s going to speak at SGM in support of CJ.

Gee, how many strikes are the referees gonna let him have before he’s out. He should have been out long ago. How can he even still be relevant in the minds of so many.

Day 100 and GRACE Helps the Sheep

Christian Counselor Speaks about Role Burn Out

Okay, he doesn't call it that. He's just talking about counseling people who have drunk deeply of the role kool-aid and how they have suffered from it. This is from the comment section of Baptists for Equality blog.

Bob Edwards says: Link

Bob Edward's book can be found here: Link

Complementarianism is Convoluted

It is convoluted, confusing, and contradicts itself.
It leaves the purity and simplicity of the Gospel far behind as it gallops ahead to regions of legalism and slavery.

The book that is supposed to make it all clear, "Recovering Biblical Manhood and Womanhood" doesn't help, but makes things worse.

Rachel Held Evans talks about it a bit here:

Complementarianism Hierarchy Outside Home

An Old Article from Christianity Today

I'll link it here for those who have not seen it yet.
I like this author's approach and brief history of the men's movement.
Jesus for Real Men

Mars, Venus, and Uranus

I'm not even going to tell you how I got onto this train of thought. The story is too long and complicated and drags in some places.

I am going to give a disclaimer:
I have never read "Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus" nor "Women May Be from Venus, But Men Are Really from Uranus." So I can't comment on whether either book is worth anything.

I'm also going to state something else. In the past I never really thought about the name of Mars Hill being anything but taken from the Bible concerning Paul arguing for the faith on Mars Hill as mentioned in the Book of Acts. But part of me is really beginning to think that the name "Mars Hill" might be far more loaded in the minds and hearts of the men who came up with the name. Part of me is starting to believe that Mark Driscoll might have read John Gray's "Men are from Mars..." and might have taken it to heart so that it has became part of the psyche that is Mars Hill. Perhaps it is more Mars/Men/Mark Hill that what I originally thought.

This, I cannot really say. But part of me really wonders if they named it Mars Hill because they really are concerned about raising the Masculine over the Feminine, making Mars Hill a great place for men (the right kind of men, Mars type men, Mark type men). They have made it a great place for Mars Men at the hurt and expense of the women. I already know that Mars Hill is a place that hurts and puts down women in order to raise up and (fake) heal the souls of men. But I've never considered the name to be a part of the abuse and oppression of women. Now I'm wondering.

And the thing that got me wondering about it again this morning is reading a blog post by the women who wrote "Women May Be from Venus, But Men Are Really from Uranus." In this post Katherine Black lays out the top ten defenses of John Gray that she receives. I post them only because they sound strangely close to the defenses the are given against feminism, egalitarianism, and arguments against male privilege in the church.

Again, I can neither endorse nor defend anything concern the books by John Gray and Katherine Black. But I can appreciate this post on men defending the words and writings of another men by attacking a woman.

John Gray Is Soundly Defended

Mars Worship at Mars Hill and Elsewhere

I've mentioned Baal worship before which Lewis (at the Commandments of Men) calls the worship of the culture. Another has referred to this idolizing of manhood as the worship of Mars. And yet another has called this manning up/gladiator cancer, Jupiter worship, not unlike the Roman games at the Coliseum that where fought to honor Jupiter.

Well, I don't know which title is more accurate. All I know it that these men who claim to worship Christ have no idea who He is. They have built up an idol of what they want Him to be and part of that idol includes hyper masculinity.

For more information check out this:
Masculine Christianity - On Display in all its 'Glory'

Manhood worship, by whatever name you choose, is alive and well in the American church to day.

Doug Wilson Loves Esau and Hates Jacob

Alrighty then.

When someone else writes a better blog post on some issue that really bothers me, I don't get jealous. I really like it and want to make sure others are aware of it, if they aren't already.

"Esau" Christianity? Douglas Wilson Needs a Bible Study by Chaplin Mike is just such a blog post.

God bless thoughtful men who truly are secure in their manhood and feel no need to go around trying to marginalize the feminine in church, home, and society.

And Yet Another Blogs on Driscoll

Sorry if I'm giving you all information overload. I'm doing this to let those who are interested know what's going on. I'm also corralling all this info in one place for me to refer back to when I need it. I have another post on New Calvinism scheduled for in the morning. But until then, here is what Sallie has to say concerning Driscoll and his Macho Man crap:

Macho Men and Dudes Are the Key to the Future of the Church

Yeah, whatever.

[Again, for those who missed it. I like men, I think men are important. But I don't buy into focus almost exclusively on the men and give them all sorts of authority when they aren't ready for it and everything will be okay.]